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Braced pistol wont need engraved? ATF FAQ

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  • norman428

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    Reading through the FAQ on their website, it sounds like there will be a tax and engraving exception if you use the manufactures markings when filing within the 120 days.

    27. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED, AM I REQUIRED TO MARK THE FIREARM SINCE I MANUFACTURED A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR)? • If the SBR equipped with a “stabilizing brace” is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker’s marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 & 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1

    This sounds like I can just use the S/N on the firearm (as it should be anyway) when filing the pistols as an SBR. Would this prevent me from removing the brace and throwing a stock on it? I would imagine a registered SRB is a registered SBR, but that last sentence makes it sound like if I change something, I "made" the firearm.

    If this is discussed somewhere already please link the thread, I did some searching but couldn't find what I was looking for. I'm wanting to get it done before the rule is reversed (assuming it will be), if it means I basically get 2 free SBR stamps. I have a 10" saint pistol and a scorpion I would love to throw a real stock on.

    Link to FAQ
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Tagging for interest. Its an interesting point. Are we going to have SBRs and SBR*s? Because with no engraving, it sounds like it would be locked into the SBR* (always braced) category since a SBR requires engraving.

    Damn. This stuff makes my head hurt. Reminds me of my younger days dealing with psycho girlfriends that cant communicate clearly and always changes her mind.
     

    norman428

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    Tagging for interest. Its an interesting point. Are we going to have SBRs and SBR*s? Because with no engraving, it sounds like it would be locked into the SBR* (always braced) category since a SBR requires engraving.

    Damn. This stuff makes my head hurt. Reminds me of my younger days dealing with psycho girlfriends that cant communicate clearly and always changes her mind.

    You would think, but they also make this point in the FAQ

    10. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED AS A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR) CAN I REMOVE/CHANGE THE “STABILIZING BRACE” OR ATTACH AN ITEM MARKETED AS A STOCK? IF SO, AM I REQUIRED TO NOTIFY ATF IN ADVANCE? • Yes, the firearm is registered as an SBR, and you can change out the “brace” device or stock for a different brace or stock. You do not need to contact ATF/NFA because changing the brace/stock does not change the configuration of the SBR. However, if the length of the firearm has changed you will need to notify the NFA Division.


    It only adds confusion to the entire thing. You can change it, but you cant build it? But "building" it is changing it. But this part makes no mention of if it has to be engraved or not. It might be the answer to my question, but if that's the case why require engraving at all as long as the firearm has a S/N.

    Plus what issues will you have later on if you sell it without an engraving, but as an "sbr".
     

    yotehunt

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    When it becomes registered, then you cannot sell it with out de-milling it and notifying the atf of that. Or, it stays the same but the buyer needs an approved stamp to buy that nfa item. As far as not making you put your name and info on the side, you didn't really manufacture or modify it, but I would put the nfa markings on it like my sbr requires.

    Far as I know, you notify atf when barrel lenth or caliber changes or the RIFLE becomes shorter than approved for, like a REAL stock that is shorter. Its nothing more than a memo.
     

    OneBadV8

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    why require engraving at all as long as the firearm has a S/N.
    because it didn't come from a manufacturer that way. Their reasoning is when you "build it" into an SBR, YOU are becoming the manufacturer of the new firearm. So engraving it registers you as the manufacturer for their records.

    Not sure how the rest will play out. Seems like it'll be pretty hard to keep track if engraving isn't required on these, but yet they're still considered an SBR.
     

    millsusaf

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    because it didn't come from a manufacturer that way. Their reasoning is when you "build it" into an SBR, YOU are becoming the manufacturer of the new firearm. So engraving it registers you as the manufacturer for their records.

    Not sure how the rest will play out. Seems like it'll be pretty hard to keep track if engraving isn't required on these, but yet they're still considered an SBR.

    They seem to take the stance for this amnesty period that any brace attached pistol is a SBR regardless of who the maker is; factory braced pistol or personally receiver built braced pistol. That is their focus, get braced pistols registered.

    But if you want to take a virgin receiver (not currently existing braced pistol) and build a SBR you as the "maker" need to engrave your markings on it.

    That is an approach I've heard some talk about. Strip down their braced attached pistols, go through the regular Form1 process, pay the $200 tax stamp and prevent incriminating themselves should the ATFs or local LEOs enforcement descretion change.
     

    Noble Sniper

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    Sounds shady….. a week ago today I filed my form 1 and paid my $200. I cannot put a stock on this UNTIL I receive the blessing of the AFT. And when I do get the ok I have to have my info etc laser etched into the receiver. Ok….. now someone who files a special form 1 for a braced pistol….. no need to take off the brace…. No $200 fee…. No need to engrave info once you’re approved but yet they are both considered SBR’s????? This gets dumber the farther it goes!!!
     
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    norman428

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    Sounds shady….. a week ago today I filed my form 1 and paid my $200. I cannot put a stick on this UNTIL I receive the blessing of the AFT. And when I do get the ok I have to have my info etc laser etched into the receiver. Ok….. now someone who files a special form 1 for a braced pistol….. no need to take off the brace…. No $200 fee…. No need to engrave info once you’re approved but yet they are both considered SBR’s????? This gets dumber the farther it goes!!!
    Agreed, I understand waiving the fee since people with a brace didn't knowingly buy or build and SBR at the time of purchase. But the rest of it seems sketchy, I'm almost wondering if the stamp has to have some sort of special mark on it to show it was part of this exemption. Even then, there are so many braced pistols on the market right now It will be impossible to figure it all out.
     

    OneBadV8

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    Agreed, I understand waiving the fee since people with a brace didn't knowingly buy or build and SBR at the time of purchase. But the rest of it seems sketchy, I'm almost wondering if the stamp has to have some sort of special mark on it to show it was part of this exemption. Even then, there are so many braced pistols on the market right now It will be impossible to figure it all out.
    and if it is grandfathered, how many will "register" SBRs during the brace amnesty just to get out of the $200 stamp?

    Seems pretty stupid on the ATF's part unless they make you register the brace itself.

    hopefully this is challenged right away and nothing happens. It's stupid all around.
     

    BR8818

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    When it becomes registered, then you cannot sell it with out de-milling it and notifying the atf of that. Or, it stays the same but the buyer needs an approved stamp to buy that nfa item. As far as not making you put your name and info on the side, you didn't really manufacture or modify it, but I would put the nfa markings on it like my sbr requires.

    Far as I know, you notify atf when barrel lenth or caliber changes or the RIFLE becomes shorter than approved for, like a REAL stock that is shorter. Its nothing more than a memo.
    You can sell a form 1 lower as long as it's not in sbr configuration you don't have to notify the AFT either.
     

    BR8818

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    I'm 99.999% sure that is incorrect. Once approved, the lower receiver is the NFA item. You can strip all the other parts off and sell the lower receiver, but it still has to transfer on a Form4.
    No, the lower alone is not an NFA item. SBR's & SBS's are classified in totality. A SBR lower without its short barreled upper or an upper that is atleast 16" is no longer a NFA item.
     

    BR8818

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    Pretty sure thats not true. Needs xxxx out and they need to know. Otherwise its a form 1 sbr, in someone else’s possession. But maybe you can show that in the CFR?
    Here you go, this use to be under the ATF FAQ

    Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?

    A: A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA. Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA firearm pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.
     

    yotehunt

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    No, the lower alone is not an NFA item. SBR's & SBS's are classified in totality. A SBR lower without its short barreled upper or an upper that is atleast 16" is no longer a NFA item.
    Bwahahaha. The lower is 100% the NFA item. Thats why you have to have a serial number. If you temporarily put a longer barrel on, its still registered. If you want to make that permanent, you have to take it off the list via memo. You can but a short upper or barrel, but cannot readily buy a NFA lower. But you do what you think is right!

     

    OneBadV8

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    I'm 99.999% sure that is incorrect. Once approved, the lower receiver is the NFA item. You can strip all the other parts off and sell the lower receiver, but it still has to transfer on a Form4.
    No, the lower alone is not an NFA item. SBR's & SBS's are classified in totality. A SBR lower without its short barreled upper or an upper that is atleast 16" is no longer a NFA item.
    Pretty sure thats not true. Needs xxxx out and they need to know. Otherwise its a form 1 sbr, in someone else’s possession. But maybe you can show that in the CFR?
    Or xxxx out with a letter to the ATF. Agreed 100%.

    there are a TON of resources out there explaining that you CAN return an SBR back to Title 1 configuration (non sbr).

    seems like a waste of $200 to me, but you can do it. Pretty sure you just need to write them a letter saying that to remove it from the registry. Unless that changed.
     
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