Body armor "update"

[Flight567]

Do we have any new information on the steel plates that I haven't heard? Last I knew steel wasn't good for armor, spall and fragmentation and all that.

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[GIJEW]

I know some guys that bought ar500 plates they say with the right carrier you hardly know you are wearing it. However, they are in their 20's yet. Ask them in about 30 years how that feels I bet it gets really heavy lol.

The bulges in the back of the ceramic plate from the .308 hits look to me like broken ribs or sternum. As for the steel plate, I wouldn't want to catch all that spall in my neck. Either way, body armor is just damage control

 

[Flight567]

The bulges in the back of the ceramic plate from the .308 hits look to me like broken ribs or sternum. As for the steel plate, I wouldn't want to catch all that spall in my neck. Either way, body armor is just damage control

My understanding is that those bulges either don't occur when plates are backed by human, or that we don't take injury from the back face deformation as easily as we had thought.

The military is adjusting their bfd standard from 44mm (also NIJ standard) to 58mm. This would indicate that either the people who are most frequently getting shot in the plate aren't seeing statistically significant injury from 44mm bfd, or that they have reason to believe another 14mm of bfd won't increase the likelihood of injury; possibly both.

While I don't like the idea of bfd, the people whom I talk to who are the most in the know are becoming less and less worried about it. Making lighter plates who will still stop a round, but deform a little more.

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[tbhausen]

Even 44mm sounds like more than I’d want to endure, so that’s comforting... but clearly, any decent body armor is a huge advantage if one should happen to take a bullet.

 

[DadSmith]

Do we have any new information on the steel plates that I haven't heard? Last I knew steel wasn't good for armor, spall and fragmentation and all that.

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Steel also has better fragmentation coating now. The ar600 I linked to above has 3/8" coating.

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

Steel also has better fragmentation coating now. The ar600 I linked to above has 3/8" coating.

I'm no scientifical type expert, but I just want to make a point regarding spall/frag/etc; when was the last time you saw a spall or frag test on anything but a bare plate? I don't ignore the effects of fmj ammo against steel. Physics is physics. But I can't believe that 2 layers of cordura and loaded mags wont put a damper on the negative affect. It just seems to be taken more lightly than normal when considering THIS POINT for armor selection. Maybe I'm wrong, I have no field experience with being shot with one on. I just can't overlook it, as often as it's discussed.

 

[DadSmith]

I'm no scientifical type expert, but I just want to make a point regarding spall/frag/etc; when was the last time you saw a spall or frag test on anything but a bare plate? I don't ignore the effects of fmj ammo against steel. Physics is physics. But I can't believe that 2 layers of cordura and loaded mags wont put a damper on the negative affect. It just seems to be taken more lightly than normal when considering THIS POINT for armor selection. Maybe I'm wrong, I have no field experience with being shot with one on. I just can't overlook it, as often as it's discussed.

If really concerned about neck and face frag protection might grab something like this. My set up it has to go through several magazines before it actually hits the plate. Unless it is a higher shot.

BulletSafe Bulletproof Bandana Level IIIA Black

The BulletSafe Bulletproof Bandana offers protection for the upper chest, neck, and lower face from bullets. The BulletSafe Bulletproof Bandana is...

ads.midwayusa.com

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

If really concerned about neck and face frag protection might grab something like this. My set up it has to go through several magazines before it actually hits the plate. Unless it is a higher shot.

BulletSafe Bulletproof Bandana Level IIIA Black

The BulletSafe Bulletproof Bandana offers protection for the upper chest, neck, and lower face from bullets. The BulletSafe Bulletproof Bandana is...

ads.midwayusa.com

New CDC mask recommendation for CHI. Who wants to take a .44 to the neck for blunt force testing? Bueller?

Same for me. I'll more likely end up with useless mags before neck sprinkles.

 

[Flight567]

I'm no scientifical type expert, but I just want to make a point regarding spall/frag/etc; when was the last time you saw a spall or frag test on anything but a bare plate? I don't ignore the effects of fmj ammo against steel. Physics is physics. But I can't believe that 2 layers of cordura and loaded mags wont put a damper on the negative affect. It just seems to be taken more lightly than normal when considering THIS POINT for armor selection. Maybe I'm wrong, I have no field experience with being shot with one on. I just can't overlook it, as often as it's discussed.

Thats a fair point. I may do some testing myself to see what comes of that. Perhaps ar500 (the company) would do well to design a plate carrier with Kevlar fibers at the edges of the plate bags to help catch any spall and frag that may have gotten past the coating?

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[Tombs]

I'm no scientifical type expert, but I just want to make a point regarding spall/frag/etc; when was the last time you saw a spall or frag test on anything but a bare plate? I don't ignore the effects of fmj ammo against steel. Physics is physics. But I can't believe that 2 layers of cordura and loaded mags wont put a damper on the negative affect. It just seems to be taken more lightly than normal when considering THIS POINT for armor selection. Maybe I'm wrong, I have no field experience with being shot with one on. I just can't overlook it, as often as it's discussed.

The layers of fabric on your carrier trying to stop spall is like asking a if a tissue cloth helps slow down a bullet. Maybe to some insignificant degree?
It's a cost/benefit analysis. If it's the least bit concerning to you that you might be injured when shot, then avoid steel plates and get some ceramic. If you're just happy you won't have a hole in you and steel is all that you can budget, then get steel. Something is better than nothing, but there are very real tradeoffs.

By the time you spend enough money to get enough kevlar around the plate to mitigate the effects, you could have just bought a ceramic plate. Not only that but you're stuck with an 8lb plate that doesn't perform as well as a 6lb ceramic plate, but costs just as much.

Also any concerns of backface deformation on hard plates are dramatically overstated. The rib crushing injuries you hear about come from soft armor, not hard plates.
That said, running a 3A panel behind a steel level 3 plate isn't the worst idea, because M193 will smash a slug out of the plate and send it into you with enough velocity to kill you.

 

[foszoe]

New CDC mask recommendation for CHI. Who wants to take a .44 to the neck for blunt force testing? Bueller?

Same for me. I'll more likely end up with useless mags before neck sprinkles.

Exactly

 

[gregr]

Level 3+ Body Armor With Plate Carrier Package (+ mag pouches + trauma pads) $299.00 – $319.00​

Build your Body Armor Loadout | AR500 / AR600 Level 3+ Body Armor With Plate Carrier Package

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Wish I had known about that when I bought mine...

 

[gregr]

Steel also has better fragmentation coating now. The ar600 I linked to above has 3/8" coating.

Grrrrrr. Retired and on a fixed income...so SUCKS!

 

[gregr]

And hey, just FYI...I`m 6`4"...make a "tall" armor vest, k? It`s ridiculous to have so little of my torso covered.

 

[Tombs]

And hey, just FYI...I`m 6`4"...make a "tall" armor vest, k? It`s ridiculous to have so little of my torso covered.

Run sapi plates instead of commercial sizes.

They're a little taller.

 

[DadSmith]

And hey, just FYI...I`m 6`4"...make a "tall" armor vest, k? It`s ridiculous to have so little of my torso covered.

They have a 14x11 plates iirc.

I'm 6'2" it looks like it covers my liver which would be a major problem if hit. The 2xl plate carrier and 14x11 plates ar600 weight is 19.5 lbs with 3 mag pouch on it no mags in it though.

 

[RealHonestAbe]

Just order plates and vest. Update hopefully soon come on mail man


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[gregr]

Just order plates and vest. Update hopefully soon come on mail man


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Unfortunately, we`re on a fixed income, if I ordered this, my wife would have me looking for a new place to live.

I do have a vest, it`s from an Israeli company. I got it through Amazon around 2012, and I got it without plates. The thing sat in customs in New York for 3 weeks after arriving in the U.S., before they finally sent it to me.

Anyway, I`ll have to do with just that.

 

[DadSmith]

Unfortunately, we`re on a fixed income, if I ordered this, my wife would have me looking for a new place to live.

I do have a vest, it`s from an Israeli company. I got it through Amazon around 2012, and I got it without plates. The thing sat in customs in New York for 3 weeks after arriving in the U.S., before they finally sent it to me.

Anyway, I`ll have to do with just that.

What size plates would it hold?

 

[gregr]

What size plates would it hold?

Ahhh, I`ll have to look. I checked on Amazon and this vest isn`t even available anymore, at least not from this seller. I have the vest, in it`s carry bag in the gun safe.

I went to the website for Tacticon Armament, and even put the thing in my cart...but man, I just don`t need this kind of grief at home no matter how bad I want that stinkin` vest! LOL.