Big Problems if Trump is Indicted

[jamil]

D'accord

Does the use of a French phrase mean I'm displaying faux intellectualism? Asking for a f[ed]riend

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Idunno man. I’ve always taken it as it’s just your style.

 

[Doug]

D'accord

Does the use of a French phrase mean I'm displaying faux intellectualism? Asking for a f[ed]riend

No, it's cultural appropriation.

 

[KG1]

I have a hard enough time with Bug's illustrative usage of big words and obscure references let alone foreign languages. I hate all the extra Googling I have to do when I read his posts

 

[red_zr24x4]

My experience from living in the south for a few years and the southern battle flag is this -
Most people see it as a way to show their regional pride, "we're from the south" kinda thing
And second , it's mostly seen as a big FU to the fed government, "we got sick of your **** once and stood up, we'll do it again " I think that's where "the south will rise again" thought comes from

 

[HoosierLife]

My experience from living in the south for a few years and the southern battle flag is this -
Most people see it as a way to show their regional pride, "we're from the south" kinda thing
And second , it's mostly seen as a big FU to the fed government, "we got sick of your **** once and stood up, we'll do it again " I think that's where "the south will rise again" thought comes from

I have agents all over the country.

Only place I ever see racism is down south.

It’s the black folks saying “I ain’t buying from no white guy.”

 

[Flash-hider]

Flashbacks......

Oh yes!

 

[ZurokSlayer7X9]

The words of the day are "CONTEXT" and "DISCERNMENT". Whenever I hear debates about things like the confederate flag, it reminds me how much these two concepts are lost in public discourse. I've been a native Hoosier all my life, so definitely not a Southerner, and would likely not fly it, but I've had friends and co-workers who had hats with the flag on them, and were anything but racists. Based on the evidence, it seems more likely that the confederate flag has been adopted as a symbol of southern pride, or a spirit of rebellion than a racist symbol by these people. Even though there are genuine racists among their ranks, its presence does not prove the existence of racist intent. We can judge the intent with context and discernment.

An example I always give is this:
"Bob shot Rob."
"Oh no! Bob's a murderer."
"But Rob was coming at Bob with a knife."

Bob went from being a "murderer" to "someone in fear for their life" with a little more context. With a little discernment, we can deduce that Rob was likely the perpetrator here. Does someone waving the confederate flag have racist intent? Not necessarily. Is he screaming obscenities at minorities while doing so? Then yes they probably have racist intent.

 

[bobzilla]

They don't have a problem with it, they have a problem with you.

I notice ol' Lefty is pretty ****ing quiet since this was posted.

 

[jamil]

My experience from living in the south for a few years and the southern battle flag is this -
Most people see it as a way to show their regional pride, "we're from the south" kinda thing
And second , it's mostly seen as a big FU to the fed government, "we got sick of your **** once and stood up, we'll do it again " I think that's where "the south will rise again" thought comes from

But, people who have no time for things like intellectual honesty and charitable interpretations, you know, because they have narratives to sell and believe, think that "the south is going to do it again means they want to try to re-institute slavery. And that's just absurd. If LG is intellectually honest he'll try to look for reasons that his instincts are wrong rather than believing they are correct, and for no further investigation than he just thinks it.

There are at least two sides to any story, and you don't have a full perspective until you've at least listened to them.

 

[KG1]

But, people who have no time for things like intellectual honesty and charitable interpretations, you know, because they have narratives to sell and believe, think that "the south is going to do it again means they want to try to re-institute slavery. And that's just absurd. If LG is intellectually honest he'll try to look for reasons that his instincts are wrong rather than believing they are correct, and for no further investigation than he just thinks it.

There are at least two sides to any story, and you don't have a full perspective until you've at least listened to them.

C'mon jamil they don't want to listen because they are beholding to their narrative.

 

[bobzilla]

C'mon jamil they don't want to listen because they are beholding to their narrative.

another way of saying "don't let facts get in the way of a terrible argument"

 

[jamil]

C'mon jamil they don't want to listen because they are beholding to their narrative.

That’s why I threw in intellectually honest. We’ve pushed back on that narrative. Now lets see if that prompts some curiosity, or if it prompts him doubling down and clinging to it.

I might seem a little too passionate about this topic given that I’m not a Rebel flag wielding Southerner. It’s that I’ve spent enough time in the south to get to know some really good, really smart people who are not actual racists, who Identify that flag with what I describe as cultural reasons. Then to see someone glibly declare without knowing any of them, that they’re all the same, it just comes off to me as bigoted.

 

[KG1]

That’s why I threw in intellectually honest. We’ve pushed back on that narrative. Now lets see if that prompts some curiosity, or if it prompts him doubling down and clinging to it.

I might seem a little too passionate about this topic given that I’m not a Rebel flag wielding Southerner. It’s that I’ve spent enough time in the south to get to know some really good, really smart people who are not actual racists, who Identify that flag with what I describe as cultural reasons. Then to see someone glibly declare without knowing any of them, that they’re all the same, it just comes off to me as bigoted.

Yep. As long as there are other non-racist reasons for one to exhibit the confederate flag such as a symbol of southern cultural pride, they would be intellectually dishonest and beholding to a narrative not to recognize them.

 

[Trigger Time]

I think its pretty clear our government is corrupt as **** and it's already ruined this country. The country is dead and just doesn't know it yet. Pretty soon the brains gonna catch up with the non beatinf heart.
The people of this country I pray can bring it back to its former glory, but it won't happen as long as tyrants occupy the offices of government and use their police state against the people.
Once the government doesn't have cash worth anything but paper, food, or gold, to give out as payment for services, all of those jack booted thugs will abandon the government.
We will see a total collapse in our lifetimes

 

[LeftyGunner]

I notice ol' Lefty is pretty ****ing quiet since this was posted.

ol‘ Lefty has been pretty ****ing busy since this was posted. I have a business to run during the day.

I voted for Bush in 1992, Dole in 1996, and Bush in 2000, Clinton dog whistling to racists, confederate sympathizers, or “heritage” southerners doesn’t effect my position one bit.

 

[LeftyGunner]

That’s why I threw in intellectually honest. We’ve pushed back on that narrative. Now lets see if that prompts some curiosity, or if it prompts him doubling down and clinging to it.

I might seem a little too passionate about this topic given that I’m not a Rebel flag wielding Southerner. It’s that I’ve spent enough time in the south to get to know some really good, really smart people who are not actual racists, who Identify that flag with what I describe as cultural reasons. Then to see someone glibly declare without knowing any of them, that they’re all the same, it just comes off to me as bigoted.

Jamil, we are talking about the same subject, but arguing from different points of view.

As it appears to me, you are arguing about the intent of the symbol, while I am arguing about the reception of the symbol.

Go through my posts…I never stated, implied, or inferred that people who fly the stars and bars are all racists, or that they all fly the flag with racist intent…you made that leap for me as a rhetorical device.

The intent behind my words was lost in your interpretation of them.…this is exactly the same problem with that damned flag.

You make the point that some southerners use that symbol as an icon of their southern heritage…fair enough.

You also conceded the point that some actual racists use that symbol as an icon of their hatred.

Well, to me that looks like the ultimate Mott and Bailey for covert resists to hide behind…”I’m not a hateful bigot, I’m just passionate about my heritage”...I guess I just have to take their word for it.

When I originally brought up the Confederate Battle Flag, I specifically mentioned the version including Trump’s portrait and how it would likely be viewed as unwelcoming to the uninitiated... I am not addressing the intent of that symbol’s use, I am addressing its reception…its effect.

Without additional context the intent behind the use of that symbol is vague and unclear: The person flying that flag may want to kill me with their kindness like you say, or they may want to kill me with their fists…either intent might be communicated through use of that symbol, and the consequences of misunderstanding could realistically result in violence.

 

[Route 45]

You make the point that some southerners use that symbol as an icon of their southern heritage…fair enough.

What exactly is "southern heritage?"

 

[LeftyGunner]

What exactly is "southern heritage?"

Beats the hell outta me but, according to the bumper stickers I see for sale at truck stops, it’s definitely not hate.

 

[KG1]

Beats the hell outta me but, according to the bumper stickers I see for sale at truck stops, it’s definitely not hate.

Oh, so now you're trashing truck stop culture. Man, I hope we don't off trail talking about that.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Oh, so now you're trashing truck stop culture. Man, I hope we don't off trail talking about that.

Oh come on, you know exactly what he's talking about. The bumper stickers and license plates that have the stars and bars that say I hate *******. I see them all the time on the trucks on the highway when we go to Georgia