Timjoebillybob
Grandmaster
- Feb 27, 2009
- 9,368
- 149
I wouldn't say fearmongering. And your How stuff works article is blown out of the water by your NPR article. The entire basis for the HSW article was that the Pres can't influence prices due to the fact that the US only has X amount of the worlds oil. Per the NPR article we were going to be the number 1 crude producer by now, and we are. Canada is currently number 5 and if the Keystone XL pipeline is completed and put to use I wouldn't be surprised to see them move up. That pipeline is mainly if not only for transporting Canadian oil. So by restricting the number 1 and 5 producers, that's not going to effect prices?There sure is a lot of fearmongering in this thread.
Taken from an excellent How Stuff Works article on the matter:
426,720 barrels of oil have already leaked from the pipeline. The pipeline has been controversial for many many reasons, one being how it runs over several major freshwater supplies. Maybe here in Indiana you may not be concerned about that, but if I were in Nebraska I sure as hell would be.
And, as more wind and solar farms are erected in our State, than that cost of electricity will certainly stay low.
That's silly to think it's some conspiracy.
If we were to draw out a curve of renewable energy resource cost, the front part of the curve is going to be high, then nosedive. Why? Implementation. The infrastructure needs to be built first, which requires an upfront cost. There is no such variable with petroleum right now: the infrastructure already exists.
I'm going to need a cite for that 427k bbls have already leaked from a pipeline that hasn't had a drop of oil flow through it yet. Although I'm assuming you are talking about the current Keystone pipeline and not the XL which is what Biden's talking about nixing. And if I'm right, I'm still going to need a cite. Best I can find there have been leaks totaling about 800k gallons, which is about 19k bbl. Or 25-30 train tankers. And that is over 10 yrs.
Why do you think it will stay low? If you're in NWI I'm assuming you have NIPSCO, do you ever get the same letter that I do asking if you want to go to "green energy" and that it will only cost $X more per KWH which works out to $X for the average household? The only reason the wind/solar farms are profitable now is due to govt subsidies for construction and that NIPSCO and the others are required by law to purchase energy from them at a cost higher than what NIPSCO can produce it for themselves. Which is the reason for the letters. I have a question, if you get those letters, have you volunteered to pay more?
And why do you think it's a conspiracy? They have virtually already came out and said it. Obama stated he wanted to make it too expensive to burn coal, or as he said "They can build a coal power plant but they'll go bankrupt" when talking about cap and trade. His Sec of Energy stated that they needed to get the price of gas up to European prices which were $9-10 per gallon, they got us halfway there.
For the infrastructure, you are forgetting that for wind/solar you'll have to rebuild the entire thing every 20-25 years for wind. Maybe only most of it every 25-30 for solar.
That's the transcript I was talking about, which shows just how wrong the other article is.The United States is one of the top 5 crude oil producers in the world, becoming #1 as of 2020. Relayed in this NPR interview transcript, we are now also a net exporter of crude oil.
I'm having a tough time understanding your "in the reverse took us from being a net consumer to a net producer of oil" remark. Are you saying that being a net producer is a bad thing? I honestly don't know and would like an expansion upon that thought, please.
If the current policies took us from being a net consumer to a net producer, couldn't new policies reverse that? Would that be a bad thing?
Hoping we can get there someday, and thinking we are there now with the current tech we have. And pushing for it, are two different things.I hope we can get there one day and I don't think that's so wrong.
You know more about this than I do, but aren't hydro-electric plants capable of addressing the industrial power load you speak of, too? I don't know the number, but I could swear I've read of a hydro-electric dam or 2 in Indiana. Wouldn't adding in wind and solar as supplemental help even more, if that were the case?
This thread is moving fast, so you may have missed it, but I am for nuclear energy. I think that ship is sailing for the United States, though.
I don't think I've directly offered my commentary on this, but you are correct. The environmental impact for producing an energy vehicle is greater than producing a gasoline equivalent. Electric-vehicles are going to become the norm, though, and as the focus on renewable energy sources shifts, then the industry will too.
I found this Business Insider article to be a great read. I've picked a couple things in that article pertaining to our discussion, but there's a lot more fascinating information to the steps manufacturers are taking to lower the environmental impact
There are 5 hydro-electric dams in IN, I live about 10 minutes from two of them. They don't produce much, and that's not even counting years like this one where they produced even less due to low water levels.
Yes I missed it, and I'm afraid you are probably correct. Almost entirely due to overblown fears. From my understanding the Three Mile Island incident released about as much radioactivity as the X-rays I had when I fell a couple of months ago.
And no offense, but that article is BS. BI may not have known it when it was published, but it is. Look at who they cite in it, and for the one especially look at their funding. There is no way an electric car will make up the difference in 6 mo. This isn't even about environmental damages from the mining/processing/etc strictly from a carbon point, over the lifespan of the vehicles the carbon output from manufacture to end of life including fuel the dinosaur fueled on comes out on top. Mainly due to the lifespan of the batteries.
I agree. Although I have toyed with the idea of making a hybrid truck, except I have nowhere near the knowledge/skills to do it how I would like. 4 wheel drive with a motor on each, regenerative braking with a smaller battery and a diesel generator. Torque from bottom to top, it would work similar to a hybrid around town and closer to a diesel-electric pusher locomotive on the highway. Simpler would be 2 motors driving the front and read differentials, simplest would be a single motor feeding into both diffs. But with each simplier you get less efficiency.I think electric cars are cool. Intriguing. I could see myself buying one as a toy if I have the dollars to throw at it. But for that kind of money I could think of better toys. And I don't think my truck will be replaced with an electric version anytime soon. They just don't have the capacity yet to be a practical replacement.
And off peak hours are exactly when solar doesn't produce at all, and wind is lower.Tesla recharging will happen in off peak hours mostly.
Storage is an up and coming technology.
Flywheels and batteries are already being deployed to help maintain frequency control.
DER is the future.
Yes storage is an up and coming technology. One thing about storage, it doesn't come for free and at least for solar you have to have with everything perfect at least 3x the production ability so that storage has something for the off hours.
Yep der sure is, but the future is not now. Nor will it be for a long while IMO.
Nah, we'd argue that the steam engine is the best when the internal combustion wasn't reliable/feasible.You guys would argue all day long for steam engines in the face of internal combustion. Unable to see the future for the present
And requiring even more generating capacity on top of what I mentioned above.Then you should know that they can transmit power from where solar is good in the winter.
I've been in a few, been inside the boilers. But didn't do any repairs, I cleaned them so you could. Nasty job but interesting at times. Watching them use det cord to clean the tubes inside was cool. The look on a new guys face when we went inside to get the next level ready for the cord was funny. He was looking at the cord and asked what it was, I said det cord. He asked what that was. I told him an explosive...Have you ever been in a powerplant, particularly a coal fired powerplant? Ever stood inside the boiler, repair the wall tubes, slag tank, grinders, sootblowers, ID, FD fans etc.?
I have this isnt theory for me, its real life stuff