Biden to cancel Keystone XL pipeline permit.

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • phylodog

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    59   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
    18,745
    113
    Arcadia
    You can bet your ass the dems will do everything in their power to make sure we cease being a net producer.
    We are already a net exporter of oil. So supply isn’t an issue.
    Yep, happened for the first time in 75 years under Trump. Let me guess, that was just the result of Obama's time in office that took awhile to reach fruition?
     

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
    11,929
    113
    North Central
    You can bet your ass the dems will do everything in their power to make sure we cease being a net producer.

    Yep, happened for the first time in 75 years under Trump. Let me guess, that was just the result of Obama's time in office that took awhile to reach fruition?
    The only reason we are a net exporter is because the Saudis allow us. If they wanted we wouldn't even be in the top 5
     

    zippy23

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    27   0   0
    May 20, 2012
    1,815
    63
    Noblesville
    I hope everyone that voted for these 2 see and admit the errors of there ways.
    TDS is real.
    this is only the tip people. Prepare for a full blown screwing.
    Idiots.
    I've yet to meet one that will ever admit they are wrong. Not one. They did in and just start screaming and yelling and blaming everyone else.
     

    Twangbanger

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Oct 9, 2010
    7,062
    113
    The only reason America is a net exporter is Fracking. And the only reason Obama couldn't stop Fracking, is because it's mostly happening on private land, where the Federal Government can't control it.

    If Fracking had to occur on public land, Obama would have shut it down a decade ago, and we wouldn't be a net exporter right now.
     

    Lushamania

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 7, 2021
    293
    43
    The Region
    Lush is a leftist.

    Never claimed to not be

    So, he's not really "outed".
    And because he disagrees, doesn't make him a "troll".
    Thank you.

    I feel I have been very respectful in the viewpoints I've brought to the table, offering citation and evidence to support them.
    All true. That said, I, for one, am just not on the mood for having some self-righteous leftist telling us we are all wrong. He can go back to Mother Jones, or Huffington, or wherever he came from.
    More name calling...

    I'm not trying to be inflammatory, never have been, and have merely been trying to discuss the topic at hand. A discussion is 2-sided and, my impression of this end of the forums is that some people want it to be an echo chamber.

    Unfortunately, some of you are trying very hard to drive anyone else away that doesn't offer that echo. I won't yield; I came here over a common interest and won't be bullied out.
    Why do you think I should have indefinite patience with abject stupidity?
    More name calling...
    Just another idiot that doesn't understand that the power for the Prius comes from burning coal because NO RENEWABLE is reliable enough to charge the car.
    More name calling...
    To be fair, a large number of pickup truck drivers use them towing/hauling about as much as your average Jeep driving soccer mom goes off roading.

    I have a friend that always drives a shiny new GMC. His current ride is a crew cab, short bed Denali. It's a beautiful truck.

    Like many, he decided to do some home improvement projects while "working from home" during our springtime lockdown. He asked to borrow my truck, a not so beautiful, slightly temperamental 1998 model, to pick up some building materials.

    I was like, uh... Is your brand new truck in the shop or something? He was like, of course not. So I'm like, uh... Why not maybe use your truck?

    He was kinda indignant and somewhat offended at the implication that his "truck" should be used for such a task.

    I told him no.

    He ended up renting a truck at Menards. :facepalm:
    I value the anecdote! Trucks and SUVs are usually the top-selling models for United States automobile sales, so it makes sense you'd find them purchased by all walks of lives.

    Seeing as how these models are so profitable for automobile manufacturers, I am certain we will begin to see more investment and innovation in hybrid/full-electric versions of trucks/SUVs. As with all things in capitalism, where there's a need, there's someone there to sell it to you.
    You're talking out both sides of your mouth. You are criticizing and apparently supporting Biden"s position on energy. Yes, those things you stated above regarding out 2020 oil production are true. Following the position you are arguing, they will cease to be true.
    How will these things come to be true? I am all for learning and am never so proud as to not admit when I'm wrong.

    You happen to be out of touch with the reason that you are blessed with electricity that is "vastly cheaper". If you think that will remain when coal, oil and natural gas are removed from the equation, then you are wildly mistaken. Wind and Solar output and control dont even come close to matching Nuclear, Coal, and Natural gas power plants. When those fossil fuels are removed from the equation the grid is going to get very sketchy and costly, what do you think it does to the grid when everyone decides its time to recharge those Teslas? Renewable energy doesn't have the storage or control for that kind of demand. Take a look at Commiefornia, wont it be nice when the government has to schedule your electric usage for you, and it cost 3 times more?
    Just my opinion, gained from a career in electric production. :twocents:

    Also the cost of your Tesla will definitely increase when the steel production is affected, you know because of coal.
    No, one solar panel does not equal one coal powered plant. You and I both know that the difference between renewable energy sources is that the generating device can, and will be, placed just about anywhere. We may all know about the wind farm north of Lafayette. Yes, the area it takes up is huge, but that land still holds its farmland use, too. As more and more renewable energy generating sources are put into the grid, normalization will occur and will fill the void that non-renewable energy plants leave.

    As coal ceases to become an energy-generating source, the supply chain is going to divert to manufacturing. This excess of coal in the supply chain will not increase the cost of steel production, as you say. Foreign steel has had the single biggest impact on domestic steel production and cost and continues to do so.

    it is exposing those who are really not constitutional by nature. Let them say their piece.
    How is this a matter of the Constitution?

    OK you got my hair up now.
    My truck gets 17MPG Hiway and avges 14/15 depending.
    I make my living from this truck. We work it. I bought it near new to pull my race car trailer. Now we haul HVAC squip. and home improvement materials/fire wood/scrap/etc and so on.
    **** a Tesla. What can you haul in a Tesla.....?????

    Man this line of thinking fires me up.

    Congrates on you driving a High top tennis shoe. No thanks.
    And how far.....?????
    Qualifying why you need your truck now was not a part of your previous post concerning your 24 gallon tank nor was it a part of my response. Am I saying that there isn't a reason for trucks, big rigs, and the like to exist? No, however, if you're concerned about how gas prices are going to affect your 24 gallon tank, then you, as a consumer, have options to mitigate that.

    As technology progress, I hope there becomes alternative energy options for you and others to tow/haul as you see fit. Until then, I hope you're writing off your vehicle expenses on your taxes. :)
    I have never heard that take on silver and gold. You figure all the deep gold and silver veins were deposited by impacts?

    I am not scoffing at the idea, just never heard the theory before.
    He's correct on both fronts, since Earth is a composition of space matter. It's just that nothing on this earth, technically, is "native." Everything in it and on it has come from some distant reach of our infinitesimal universe, deposited here by The Big Bang, asteroids, meteors, and whatever else allowed this planet to form as it has.

    As much as the idea of mining the asteroid belt is pulled straight from science fiction, it's a very legitimate theory. I would be surprised if it happens in our life, though; space travel is so costly and difficult that were are barely in the golden of age of it now (sorry for the pun, ha!)
    giphy.gif
    There's a whole treasure trove of South Park episodes and gags to overflow this thread with. Some seasons have been greater than others, but that's a different thread for a different time. Haha!
    Which ones were so problematic for you?

    This is actually a really good resource, thanks for posting! If anyone is looking for a comprehensive list, that goes all the way to George Washington, I'm linking it here.
    Yep, happened for the first time in 75 years under Trump. Let me guess, that was just the result of Obama's time in office that took awhile to reach fruition?
    The only reason we are a net exporter is because the Saudis allow us. If they wanted we wouldn't even be in the top 5
    The NPR interview transcript I linked in my previous post covers all of this. I found it to be pretty enlightening, I hope you do, too.
     

    phylodog

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    59   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
    18,745
    113
    Arcadia
    I've got no issue with them flooding the market, more supply is typically a good thing for consumers, at least when free markets are allowed to exist. The more we produce on our own the less we have to pay for oil produced elsewhere.
     

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
    11,929
    113
    North Central
    No, one solar panel does not equal one coal powered plant. You and I both know that the difference between renewable energy sources is that the generating device can, and will be, placed just about anywhere. We may all know about the wind farm north of Lafayette. Yes, the area it takes up is huge, but that land still holds its farmland use, too. As more and more renewable energy generating sources are put into the grid, normalization will occur and will fill the void that non-renewable energy plants leave.

    As coal ceases to become an energy-generating source, the supply chain is going to divert to manufacturing. This excess of coal in the supply chain will not increase the cost of steel production, as you say. Foreign steel has had the single biggest impact on domestic steel production and cost and continues to do so.
    The difference is renewable is not 24-7 producer. And storage capabilities dont exist. If you're ready to tailor your usage to that of your output, but that's not how the world runs.
    How much coal is used in the production of one windmill? How much fuel does it take to transport and erect 1 windmill, try that with your prius.
    maybe do some research into battery technology and the damage it does to the earth, your prius doesn't even come close to cancelling that out
     

    phylodog

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    59   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
    18,745
    113
    Arcadia
    The difference is renewable is not 24-7 producer. And storage capabilities dont exist. If you're ready to tailor your usage to that of your output, but that's not how the world runs.
    How much coal is used in the production of one windmill? How much fuel does it take to transport and erect 1 windmill, try that with your prius.
    maybe do some research into battery technology and the damage it does to the earth, your prius doesn't even come close to cancelling that out
    But, but, but, but feelings
     

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
    11,929
    113
    North Central
    I've got no issue with them flooding the market, more supply is typically a good thing for consumers, at least when free markets are allowed to exist. The more we produce on our own the less we have to pay for oil produced elsewhere.
    but if they want to flood the market and make oil worth $5 a barrel they have the ability. Are we going to export our oil for that? Nope. We won't even use ours at that price. It would shut our production down. Meanwhile the Saudi and Russia build an alliance

    China has already proven whoever has the ability to produce cheap products, gains control of the market.
     
    Last edited:

    phylodog

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    59   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
    18,745
    113
    Arcadia
    Are we buying it for $5? If so, why not stockpile oil we pay more to produce until prices go back up? If prices go up we use our own, if they drop we use theirs. I'm not an economy expert by a long shot but I struggle to figure how politically handicapping the United States so we cannot compete worldwide is in the best interest of the country. Oh wait, I forgot we were talking about Democrats in charge, we're supposed to come in last.
     

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
    11,929
    113
    North Central
    Are we buying it for $5? If so, why not stockpile oil we pay more to produce until prices go back up? If prices go up we use our own, if they drop we use theirs. I'm not an economy expert by a long shot but I struggle to figure how politically handicapping the United States so we cannot compete worldwide just doesn't seem to be in the best interest of the country. Oh wait, I forgot we were talking about Democrats in charge, we're supposed to come in last.
    It's not $5 now, because Russia and Saudi Arabia has a truce going on. That intern lets Russia strengthen while we will cut our own throats with regulations and internal conflict. And when they want to they will make us dependant on them. Americans have proven they are not willing to pay a premium for products that cost more to make here, because of self imposed regulations that make them feel all warm and fuzzy.

    it is definitely not in the best interest for us.
     

    Lushamania

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 7, 2021
    293
    43
    The Region
    The difference is renewable is not 24-7 producer. And storage capabilities dont exist. If you're ready to tailor your usage to that of your output, but that's not how the world runs.
    Storage capabilities exist and will continue to improve. We are still very much in the infancy of renewable energy as a globally adopted energy source.
    How much coal is used in the production of one windmill? How much fuel does it take to transport and erect 1 windmill, try that with your prius. maybe do some research into battery technology and the damage it does to the earth, your prius doesn't even come close to cancelling that out
    Obviously, it takes non-renewable energy sources at some point along the chain. Obviously, there is going to be a carbon net negative in the upstart of these industries. I am not so dull as to miss your whataboutism, but...

    We have to start somewhere.

    The endgame is to be carbon neutral and to minimize our impact on the earth and its finite resources. Are you saying we shouldn't even try at all? Should we just continue to be wholly dependent upon fossil fuels? Throw our hands up in the air, buy cars manufactured before 1975, rip out their catalytic converters, then do laps around the country?
    Are we buying it for $5? If so, why not stockpile oil we pay more to produce until prices go back up? If prices go up we use our own, if they drop we use theirs.
    We do stockpile it and we would. I've referenced this link for a third time now, but they discuss what effectively answers your second question.

    SHAPIRO: If some external event happened and suddenly the U.S. could not import any oil at all, would the U.S. be able to get by on just domestically produced oil? Is it that we choose not to or that we really can't?

    CROFT: Well, what we would do in the case of a really prolonged supply disruption - we would probably release first from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. We have the largest stockpile of emergency crude in the world. But certainly, if you think about a situation where you had the Middle East off the market, that would be a huge problem for the United States.

    And one of the things that we think about in terms of our relationship with countries like Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia is the only country that sits on spare capacity. U.S. production is, like, just in time production. It cannot surge production quickly. Saudi Arabia holds barrels in reserve. They have an installed capacity of about 12.5 million barrels a day. They're currently producing under 10 million. They are the central banker of oil. They're really the only country that can bring it on quickly in terms of barrels, you know, in an emergency situation.

    SHAPIRO: OK. So the U.S. has become much less dependent on foreign oil over the last decade. Do you foresee a time when the U.S. will be totally independent?

    CROFT: Even if the U.S. continues to produce, we would have to have a situation where we had ample supplies in reserve beyond the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to be in that type of situation. So again, I think that we've become more self-sufficient. But the idea that we are completely walled off from what's happening in the rest of the world in terms of global crude markets, I think we're not going to get to that point anytime soon.
     

    INgunowner

    ARC Solutions
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Nov 3, 2012
    243
    28
    Henry County
    The more we produce, the less we have to pay
    Think Strategically not Tactically.

    Why start a price war against our blossoming infrastructure that hurts your allies?

    Play the long game, wait for a favorable administration and drive domestic production into the ground with favorable pricing.

    Once our capacity is crippled you can torture our economy with your price control,
    thumb screws if you will.

    The administration doesn't fight it because they get to take the "W" on Lower production(yeah environment!)
    and
    Lower prices(yeah economy!)

    PLUS, bonus points, the powers that be understand the pendulum of politics. Leaving your opponent with crippled infrastructure and an enemy in control of your oil supply is American politics 101... Possibly a proxy war too.

    Time machine rides $10 apiece.
     

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
    11,929
    113
    North Central
    Storage capabilities exist and will continue to improve. We are still very much in the infancy of renewable energy as a globally adopted energy source.


    The storage capabilities are nowhere close to what is needed to replace fossil fuels, the other part is mining for components used in batteries are very destructive. People are not being honest about the technology we have at hand. I agree Renewable resource are needed, but the technology is not there Jumping on the bandwagon early does nothing but make is vulnerable.

    i have no idea how i screwed up that quote so bad, also don't know how to fix it
     
    Last edited:

    Jaybird1980

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Jan 22, 2016
    11,929
    113
    North Central
    Think Strategically not Tactically.

    Why start a price war against our blossoming infrastructure that hurts your allies?

    Play the long game, wait for a favorable administration and drive domestic production into the ground with favorable pricing.

    Once our capacity is crippled you can torture our economy with your price control,
    thumb screws if you will.

    The administration doesn't fight it because they get to take the "W" on Lower production(yeah environment!)
    and
    Lower prices(yeah economy!)

    PLUS, bonus points, the powers that be understand the pendulum of politics. Leaving your opponent with crippled infrastructure and an enemy in control of your oil supply is American politics 101... Possibly a proxy war too.

    Time machine rides $10 apiece.
    This guy gets it.
    Once we cut our own throats, we are at their mercy
     
    Top Bottom