Biden cancels Elon Musk's adventures in space

[jamil]

You made an assertion. Either you can support it or not.

Are you talking about loans? Paid back.

Electric vehicle subsidy? Long since used up.

What else?

No. Federal subsidies for Tesla have been phased out as they've reached the limit on sales. But states still have subsidies for which Tesla sales are eligible. Indiana is not one of those states. So both of you are kinda right. Tesla's business model still involves some state governments' incentives, but largely Tesla is on their own now. But they did benefit a lot from those subsidies through most of 2019.

 

[jamil]

I think you might want to reword your statement. Musk didn’t ”give” us anything. Yes, he has vision and is creative. He also is the biggest film flam man since PT Barnum. I’d do the research to add up all the public dollars he’s received from the government ( read that as you and me taxpayer ) but it would just make me sick.

His car company has never made an operating profit. Never. If it weren’t for political and media support and government (see above) funding the electric car phenomenon would never have had any traction. (Please excuse the pun). Every article I’ve read that is science based says the rare earth mineral mining is finite and an environmental disaster that is completely dependent on foreign countries. Electric generation for fueling electric cars is primarily done with coal and natural gas. Battery disposal is a landfill nightmare environmentalists won’t discuss.

Sorry, I will never be a Musk fan.

That's not true. Tesla earned ~$750M profit in 2020 which was the first full year without federal subsidies. We'll see how it does this year.

 

[jamil]

While I agree regarding the tax money spent on Musk/Tesla, I can also see the argument that holding this against Musk is like putting a food dish in front of the dog and then getting mad because he starts eating.

That's a good way to put it. I disagree with subsidizing businesses. If they can't make it in the existing market, that's just too bad. And subsidies do help early sales for things like this. I'm not sure in this case if it makes people buy an EV who would never have bought one but for the subsidy. One of the guys I know who owns one told me that he was going to buy one anyway, but decided to buy one before subsidies ended. I mean, who wouldn't want to reduce the effective cost of something they're planning to buy anyway.

 

[AIRDOO]

Amazing how some here believe the Gov. money is not their money.

 

[BugI02]

That's a good way to put it. I disagree with subsidizing businesses. If they can't make it in the existing market, that's just too bad. And subsidies do help early sales for things like this. I'm not sure in this case if it makes people buy an EV who would never have bought one but for the subsidy. One of the guys I know who owns one told me that he was going to buy one anyway, but decided to buy one before subsidies ended. I mean, who wouldn't want to reduce the effective cost of something they're planning to buy anyway.

The government?

 

[ashby koss]

Right. My point with the space tech thing is that Elon is pretty much a real life Tony Stark. If given proper incentive he could probably have some crazy weapons tech to arm those space craft with pretty quickly.

Edit: I also wonder just how much musing has he already done on the problem of arming his craft or space weapons already. I’d be absolutely shocked if he hasn’t at least tossed the idea around that dome of his.

I’m sure they will all have “not-a-space-gun” equipment

 

[rooster]

I’m sure they will all have “not-a-space-gun” equipment

Well in the new JRE episode he did he talked about how easy a Nuke was to build.........

 

[amboy49]

That's not true. Tesla earned ~$750M profit in 2020 which was the first full year without federal subsidies. We'll see how it does this year.

Maybe you should look up the phrase ”higher profits , in part , from selling regulatory credits.” Unless I’m mistaken, Tesla (Musk) got a handout from the US Government by selling something made out of whole cloth. I.e. inventing energy credits that can be sold to other companies that aren’t meeting environmental standards. They still don’t meet them, they just get a pass by the EPA and other governmental agencies. Business as usual for those companies. Kinda like transgressing one of many biblical commandments, going to confession, saying three Hail Mary‘s and four our Fathers, and getting off scott free. Tesla received $1.6 billion in regulatory credit sales. NP before tax for Tesla was $761mm. THAT is not an operating profit !

Tesla stock went up 700% last year. Tell me how that is possible for a company with Tesla’s P/E ratio. If the government wasn’t promoting “green energy, climate change rhetoric, and EV acceptance, especially with the unbridled assistance of the mainstream media and Gen X’ers and beyond, the whole renewable scam would’ve be nearly as far along.
You haven’t convinced me Musk isn’t getting subsidized by you and me. I will admit the federal tax credits for Tesla purchases have expired, but the government is still paying lip service to the industry. EV’s only to be sold in California in the near future. Biden dictating EV purchase and usage by government agencies, etc. Free market my ass. Damn few people I know are buying the Tesla’s, or other EV’s, unless they are in the upper income tax bracket. At $80k and up for a Tesla, John Q Public ain’t buying one.

 

[jamil]

Maybe you should look up the phrase ”higher profits , in part , from selling regulatory credits.” Unless I’m mistaken, Tesla (Musk) got a handout from the US Government by selling something made out of whole cloth. I.e. inventing energy credits that can be sold to other companies that aren’t meeting environmental standards. They still don’t meet them, they just get a pass by the EPA and other governmental agencies. Business as usual for those companies. Kinda like transgressing one of many biblical commandments, going to confession, saying three Hail Mary‘s and four our Fathers, and getting off scott free. Tesla received $1.6 billion in regulatory credit sales. NP before tax for Tesla was $761mm. THAT is not an operating profit !

Tesla stock went up 700% last year. Tell me how that is possible for a company with Tesla’s P/E ratio. If the government wasn’t promoting “green energy, climate change rhetoric, and EV acceptance, especially with the unbridled assistance of the mainstream media and Gen X’ers and beyond, the whole renewable scam would’ve be nearly as far along.
You haven’t convinced me Musk isn’t getting subsidized by you and me. I will admit the federal tax credits for Tesla purchases have expired, but the government is still paying lip service to the industry. EV’s only to be sold in California in the near future. Biden dictating EV purchase and usage by government agencies, etc. Free market my ass. Damn few people I know are buying the Tesla’s, or other EV’s, unless they are in the upper income tax bracket. At $80k and up for a Tesla, John Q Public ain’t buying one.

I haven't looked at Tesla's published tax info. I'm pretty sure though that federal credits ended for Tesla in January 2020. So their profits were without that. But buyers still got credits from state incentives. Of course not even most states have such incentives.

And the credits aren't directly attributable to Tesla's revenue. They're credits for the buyers of EV's to give them incentives to go electric. So they use those credits because they're there. Of course they might influence some people to buy Tesla's that would not have bought an EV otherwise. But given their profits in 2020 without the incentives, apparently people are willing to buy them regardless.

We'll have something to complain about soon (I'm not fond of subsidizing such things either). If the GREED act is passed, Tesla will get $7K/vehicle for 200K vehicles, and then that would be phased out on a schedule until the credits are ended. Not great. Joe's not spending my money very wisely.

 

[JTScribe]

I'd rather the US government subsidize someone producing next-gen technology within the United States than send aid money to China to research economy-shuttering diseases.

 

[jamil]

I'd rather the US government subsidize someone producing next-gen technology within the United States than send aid money to China to research economy-shuttering diseases.

If we all get our druthers, I'd rather end all subsidies AND ending aid to China.