Beer Virus V

[Timjoebillybob]

Then compare California to Florida. A state without those draconian restrictions, and a much larger elderly population.

California is at 85 deaths/100K and climbing. Florida is at 113 deaths/100K and falling.

Is Florida's higher death rate worth allowing thousands of small businesses to survive? That's what any debate about lockdowns and other restrictions comes down to. At least until California's numbers catch up with Florida. Then there's no debate at all.

Except as you said, FL has a much higher elderly population. Which is the most at risk for a fatal infection, so their numbers may not have been lower even with the restrictions. And CA may not have been higher without.

 

[JettaKnight]

It is curious that mask are simultaneously ineffective because people don't wear them right and there's big gaps for warm moist air to escape, and yet their dangerous to the wearer because they trap warm moist air.

 

[phylodog]

Hmmm... I wear a disposable surgical mask with a neck gaiter (yowee) over the top. I breathe thru the mask with no difficulty, I understand some have COPD and other breathing difficulties. Heck, I even started wearing it to push mow the yard over the summer (wife's suggestion) to prevent seasonal allergy flair-ups (she was right), and no problem.

YMMV.


Because people don't wash their hands and stay home when sick during the flu season. I can't count the number of times I sent team members home with the flu.

I was somewhat tactful, but the overall message was "get out now, and why did you even come in when you obviously have the flu?"

"Oh, I'll survive..."

"Sure, but shut down your computer and go home... now!"

The advice for flu season has been the same for a long time, here's Oct 2019, pre-Covid:

Practice Good Health Habits

Practice good health habits to stop the spread of germs and prevent illnesses like flu.

web.archive.org

Loose fitting masks (of any type) do little to protect the wearer. Tight fitting masks that you breath THRU without leakage do.

Fauci is a ****bag who has lied multiple times... and squandered public trust in doing so. So, not only no integrity, but a dumb***.


Link? I've seen empirical studies that the UK and Denmark variants are marginally more communicable... but nothing about a 10x (or any x) more deadly strain.

ETA: Fixed link... now Web Archive link.

I've worn disposable masks, the neck gaiters and now have one which is better than the other two alternatives but it still sucks, still fogs my glasses and still gets wet inside even though it doesn't leak air.

You're correct that Fauci cannot be trusted. Neither can the media in my experience and I no longer participate in social media outside of the forums. Part of my frustration is that I no longer feel comfortable believing anything anymore. Does Covid exist? Sure, is it so deadly that we should wreck the economy and completely upend our society? Not that I've seen, not by a long shot.

 

[phylodog]

It is curious that mask are simultaneously ineffective because people don't wear them right and there's big gaps for warm moist air to escape, and yet their dangerous to the wearer because they trap warm moist air.

Depends on who you want to listen to. Mine doesn't let any air escape, it's all filtered and it still ____ing sucks to wear. Like I've said before, perhaps it doesn't bother some people to walk around with a pillow case on their heads, I'm not one of them.

 

[phylodog]

https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/1...ity-of-people-getting-coronavirus-wore-masks/

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watc...l-population-warns-of-unintended-consequences

What contributed to Fauci's change of direction on masks? I believe the motivations were political and not scientific. Prove me wrong. As long as there is scientific evidence to support both sides we don't have a scientific consensus, we have opinions. Masks, nor vaccines nor prior exposure and natural immunity will prevent someone from spreading the virus.

What I've seen is fear mongering well out of proportion to the actual threat, typical for the media these days.

 

[T.Lex]

The downside risk of COVID is death, albeit a low percentage risk. Masks have been shown to mitigate that risk, subject to all sorts of issues, with minimal downside risk to the masks themselves.

Millions of patrol LEOs wear bulletproof vests to mitigate the downside risk of getting shot, even though it is a low percentage risk. There's little downside risk to the vests, so it makes sense. The departments generally mandate them (even though a significant percentage would probably wear them voluntarily).

I'm not sure of the fearmongering allegation. I mean, there probably are some places that do. The places I look, though, tend to put the reality out there. YMMV.

 

[HoughMade]

Finding that people who wore masks got the virus does not lead to the conclusion that "masks don't work" unless either: 1) the standard is perfection, or 2) there is reliable evidence that those who did not wear masks got the virus at the same or lower rate than mask wearers, and spread the virus at a an equal or lower rate- and both groups were exposed to the same risk. Possible benefit vs. no risk of doing it.

Fauci's position on masks changed because of the supply early on and his March '20 position was misleading at best. Just because there was a short supply, in my mind, did not justify putting out misleading information, but it explains it.

 

[HoughMade]

The Indiana numbers are looking pretty good.

From an average daily positive peak (hopefully) on December 6th of 6,900 positives, today the average stands at under 3,600. The highest total number of positives we had on a single day was about 8,400 on December 2nd. Today it was 2,700, yesterday it was 2,500. These are levels we have not seen since last October. Hopefully the trend continues.

The deaths by day average is 40. It was almost 90 on December 14th. The positivity rate is on a downward trend as well. Total ICU beds available is almost 30% which is fantastic. Hospitalizations are on a downward trend as well.

Hopefully, both of these trends continue, and even accelerate their decline as more people get vaccinated. I know a lot of people, HCPs and older persons, who have been vaccinated. When we have good vaccination rates of people over 70, we should see the death rate plunge.

I hear these anecdotal stories about vaccine distribution problems, but from what I have seen all over Indiana, it seems like it is going well. I speculate that after tomorrow the vaccinations will be reported to be going great everywhere in the U.S.

The encouraging news in Indiana continues.

About 2,900 new cases today and an average under 3,500 daily.

Hospital admission continue to go down.

Many counties, including those I live and work in, went to orange from red as the positivity rates drop.

 

[phylodog]

The downside risk of COVID is death, albeit a low percentage risk. Masks have been shown to mitigate that risk, subject to all sorts of issues, with minimal downside risk to the masks themselves.

Millions of patrol LEOs wear bulletproof vests to mitigate the downside risk of getting shot, even though it is a low percentage risk. There's little downside risk to the vests, so it makes sense. The departments generally mandate them (even though a significant percentage would probably wear them voluntarily).

I'm not sure of the fearmongering allegation. I mean, there probably are some places that do. The places I look, though, tend to put the reality out there. YMMV.

I'd love to find a source of information I could trust. Anyone putting out "news" which includes descriptive words to "help" me figure out how to feel about a topic is all I can seem to find.

 

[JettaKnight]

Depends on who you want to listen to. Mine doesn't let any air escape, it's all filtered and it still ____ing sucks to wear. Like I've said before, perhaps it doesn't bother some people to walk around with a pillow case on their heads, I'm not one of them.

I guess I'm confused - if you think masks are stupid, harmful, and ineffective, then why are you wearing a top quality mask and not just the bare minimum?

Serious question.

 

[phylodog]

I guess I'm confused - if you think masks are stupid, harmful, and ineffective, then why are you wearing a top quality mask and not just the bare minimum?

Serious question.

Because it sucks less than the bare minimum and I also work closely with someone who puts a lot of money into families mouths (both through employment and charity) and is extremely high risk. I've taken every precaution I know to take to protect him including sleeping in a camper 70 miles away from home for two weeks when my wife and daughter tested positive.

I've never claimed the virus is harmless but I strongly believe people deserve to be able to have accurate information and to think and decide for themselves. I am not afraid of getting it personally but I do probably more than most to avoid picking it up.

 

[T.Lex]

....I strongly believe people deserve to be able to have accurate information and to think and decide for themselves.

Totally agree with that.

 

[nonobaddog]

The downside risk of COVID is death, albeit a low percentage risk. Masks have been shown to mitigate that risk, subject to all sorts of issues, with minimal downside risk to the masks themselves.

Millions of patrol LEOs wear bulletproof vests to mitigate the downside risk of getting shot, even though it is a low percentage risk. There's little downside risk to the vests, so it makes sense. The departments generally mandate them (even though a significant percentage would probably wear them voluntarily).

I'm not sure of the fearmongering allegation. I mean, there probably are some places that do. The places I look, though, tend to put the reality out there. YMMV.

You use the term "masks" like it has some meaning anymore. A good certified P100 respirator mask(not made in china) that seals to the face will mitigate the spread of a virus. A mask Karen made from bed sheets and elastic doesn't work, except for signalling that the wearer is a bit slow.

To say masks mitigate the risk is simplistic at best and irresponsible.

Similarly, there is a difference in bulletproof vests as well. What does bulletproof mean? What level of armor is the vest? A good vest that is police issued will probably mitigate the risk. A vest Karen made from bed sheets and elastic doesn't work, except for signalling that the wearer is a bit slow.

 

[Ark]

And there it is. First day of Biden, new WHO changes to the diagnostic criteria. Positive PCR test no longer automatically equals a covid case without a second test and actual symptomatic presentation. If adopted today, this criteria would eviscerate the case count.

Just in time to begin manufacturing the narrative that Biden beat the virus with the power of...whatever, progressivism? Non-Trumpiness?

 

[phylodog]

 

[BugI02]

Millions of patrol LEOs wear bulletproof vests to mitigate the downside risk of getting shot, even though it is a low percentage risk. There's little downside risk to the vests, so it makes sense. The departments generally mandate them (even though a significant percentage would probably wear them voluntarily).

The comparison would only make sense if the LEOs were sewing their own vests and making them out of old t-shirt material and nothing else

They would be about as effective as homemade masks, also

 

[jamil]

Just to be clear, Sweden's cases went exponentially up the epidemic curve until they implemented... mitigations.

And, your premise that mitigations don't work, it's the same everywhere, I'll disagree...

View attachment 121720

And, before the usual suspects get their undies in a bunch, no, I do not support another lock down, in fact the opposite, "mitigations" are in place to avoid necessitating another lockdown.

And, despite the caterwauling, Indiana was locked down for about 6 weeks, late March through early May. If donning a mask to go into the local Dollar General is an existential crisis for someone, then, gee, I don't know what to tell them.

Nothing having anything to do with covid necessitates another lockdown. And if you’re going to encourage masks, encourage ones that work. Like I said, people should exercise personal responsibility. Let ‘er rip. No mandates.

 

[chipbennett]

And there it is. First day of Biden, new WHO changes to the diagnostic criteria. Positive PCR test no longer automatically equals a covid case without a second test and actual symptomatic presentation. If adopted today, this criteria would eviscerate the case count.

Just in time to begin manufacturing the narrative that Biden beat the virus with the power of...whatever, progressivism? Non-Trumpiness?

Wow. So Biden is going to reverse the Covid positive rate the same way that Obama turned back the rising of the sea levels.

It's a miracle!

 

[drillsgt]

Wow. So Biden is going to reverse the Covid positive rate the same way that Obama turned back the rising of the sea levels.

It's a miracle!

That's what they did with H1N1, just stopped counting cases, problem solved.

 

[nonobaddog]

That's what they did with H1N1, just stopped counting cases, problem solved.

That worked for china too.