Ban On Women In Combat Being Lifted

[HoughMade]

Now that we've cited our anecdotes...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Now that we've cited our anecdotes...

I usually just bore-cite my anecdotes.

 

[HoughMade]

I usually just bore-cite my anecdotes.

Your bore cites never....bore me.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Your bore cites never....bore me.

They're only meant to get me on paper.

 

[Alamo]

I... So how about the Israelis? ...
https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/3885

The Israelis have long had mandatory military service for both men (3yrs) and women (2yr), and have been expanding the number of positions they can occupy, but the number of women in combat roles has been less than you might imagine from the coverage in the press. In 2016 it was about 4% in direct combat units (It may be more now, that was at the beginning of a push to put more women in combat roles). There were more in combat support units. They have a Caracal (or Karakal) battalion guarding one of the borders that is about 50%-60% women. But in that same time frame it was noted that 40% of the women of the Caracal Battalion suffered injuries, and 70% of women in artillery; that's double the rate for men, which reflects the experience the US and I believe other militaries have experienced.

 

[Alamo]

In 2015 the Marines ran a study comparing male only units vs integrated units in combat maneuvers (and these were infantry type maneuvers). The integrated units were mostly male, with small numbers of women, reflecting the then percentage of women in the Marines, about 7%. In the past other services had compared men and women at individual skills and fitness tests, but the Marines focused on unit outcomes. Women volunteers were solicited, several hundred I think, and they had to pass the basic Marine PFT etc. Then they were trained in their individual and unit skills for several months before the tests began.

The all-male units outperformed the integrated ones across the board. The Secretary of the Navy, Ray Mabus, declared the study flawed and disregarded the results, opening up all combat roles to women.

As a pool of soldiers, the top 10 or 20 percent of women perform about as well as the bottom 10-20% of men in strength tasks, and roughly the top half of women are at about the same performance level as the bottom half of men in aerobic tasks. That was documented at least by the 1980s, and again recently, iff memory serves. If you need a lot of people this is what you have, but if you are selecting for smaller elite units where you want the very best, you are very likely not to come up with a male-female ratio that reflect the general population or even the Army or Marine population. Add to that the higher rate of musculo-skeletal injuries that females suffer doing "grunt stuff," and those combat tasks that require both stamina and muscle for long periods of time are going to weed out a lot of people, and likely higher percentages of females than males.

Shoot, I knew better than to join the infantry or the marines. The Army's Airborne School was about the max of my physical strength and skill, and while I am proud that I graduated I also know that it was not nearly on par with many other courses, like Ranger School, BUDS, Air Force PJs, or even being a real paratrooper.

 

[actaeon277]

Nearly Half of Female Soldiers Still Failing New Army Fitness Test, While Males Pass Easily

The data raises questions about whether the Army's attempt to create a fitter force is creating more barriers to success for women.

www.military.com

 

[Thor]

If they keep lowering the requirements there won't be any point in testing at all. Everyone gets a participation trophy then dies on the battlefield.

 

[KellyinAvon]

You mean, men and women are physiologically different? Who knew??? EVERYONE KNOWS THAT!!!!

 

[Ark]

Nearly Half of Female Soldiers Still Failing New Army Fitness Test, While Males Pass Easily

The data raises questions about whether the Army's attempt to create a fitter force is creating more barriers to success for women.

www.military.com

"The most difficult event for both male and female soldiers is the two-mile run, with 5% and 22% failing, respectively. The run must be completed within 21 minutes."

Huh. Would not have been the sticking point I expected. I guess I can see it if the run comes last after everything else. My daily runs are definitely harder if I've done a round of strength training stuff first, but a two miler is not what I consider difficult.

 

[1nderbeard]

"The most difficult event for both male and female soldiers is the two-mile run, with 5% and 22% failing, respectively. The run must be completed within 21 minutes."

Huh. Would not have been the sticking point I expected. I guess I can see it if the run comes last after everything else. My daily runs are definitely harder if I've done a round of strength training stuff first, but a two miler is not what I consider difficult.

Yeah two miles is nothing. I'm +20 pounds right now and I could still probably do that in 20 min.

 

[drillsgt]

"The most difficult event for both male and female soldiers is the two-mile run, with 5% and 22% failing, respectively. The run must be completed within 21 minutes."

Huh. Would not have been the sticking point I expected. I guess I can see it if the run comes last after everything else. My daily runs are definitely harder if I've done a round of strength training stuff first, but a two miler is not what I consider difficult.

The run does come last after you've done both the deadlift and the sprint/drag/carry. In the article they say female scores continue to lag behind male scores lol, they are always going to do that with this new test. Unlike the old test there is no age or gender normed scoring so your score is your score. With this new test it's pretty strength focused with the deadlift, the throw and the sprint drag carry using the weight sled and kettlebells. If you just want to pass at the 60% minimum it's not that hard really but I don't know many females that are ever going to really dominate it. With the old test you could do pretty well regardless of body type but the lean fit guys are not going to do well in some of the new events and the body builder types are not going to do well in other events. For females especially it's not really the 2 mile run which was getting them but the leg tuck which is why they created the plank as a substitute. The max for the deadlift is 340 lbs, that's world record territory for females. With the old test it wasn't unusual at all for people to max it but with the new test if someone max's it it's national news lol.

 

[Ark]

Yeah two miles is nothing. I'm +20 pounds right now and I could still probably do that in 20 min.

I am like 60 pounds overweight for my height and I run 50 minutes a day, 10 minute increments, short cooldown walks in between. Average mile time about nine minutes. 2 miles in 21 minutes is me dragging that day plus some breathing room.

Of course when I was 19 I could run about 100 yards before I fell down gasping for air and could literally feel my face throbbing from never experiencing an actual pulse before, so. I guess it's different when you're a zoomer who has never so much as run across the street.

 

[1nderbeard]

I am like 60 pounds overweight for my height and I run 50 minutes a day, 10 minute increments, short cooldown walks in between. Average mile time about nine minutes. 2 miles in 21 minutes is me dragging that day plus some breathing room.

Of course when I was 19 I could run about 100 yards before I fell down gasping for air and could literally feel my face throbbing from never experiencing an actual pulse before, so. I guess it's different when you're a zoomer who has never so much as run across the street.

That's a great routine. My wife is a big runner. She averages probably 10-15 miles a week, split it 2-3 workouts a week.

I am going to start back some cardio in my weight training regimen. I lift 3 x a week. I'm going to start adding a mile run a week; just enough to keep a little leaner than I am right now.

 

[Ark]

That's a great routine. My wife is a big runner. She averages probably 10-15 miles a week, split it 2-3 workouts a week.

I am going to start back some cardio in my weight training regimen. I lift 3 x a week. I'm going to start adding a mile run a week; just enough to keep a little leaner than I am right now.

I try to do some strength training every other day, schedule and energy permitting, but the daily runs are a hard-ingrained habit at this point from years and years. They're the habit I had the most success building and keeping, so I can't quit.

I have discovered that if I don't make a real effort to keep up with strength training, the daily cardio just wipes out whatever upper body strength I've gained. But if I stop the cardio I pile on fat like a pig.

 

[churchmouse]

The run does come last after you've done both the deadlift and the sprint/drag/carry. In the article they say female scores continue to lag behind male scores lol, they are always going to do that with this new test. Unlike the old test there is no age or gender normed scoring so your score is your score. With this new test it's pretty strength focused with the deadlift, the throw and the sprint drag carry using the weight sled and kettlebells. If you just want to pass at the 60% minimum it's not that hard really but I don't know many females that are ever going to really dominate it. With the old test you could do pretty well regardless of body type but the lean fit guys are not going to do well in some of the new events and the body builder types are not going to do well in other events. For females especially it's not really the 2 mile run which was getting them but the leg tuck which is why they created the plank as a substitute. The max for the deadlift is 340 lbs, that's world record territory for females. With the old test it wasn't unusual at all for people to max it but with the new test if someone max's it it's national news lol.

Your score should be your score. No curves or reducing requirements so the girls can play sports. WTAF is wrong with people.

 

[churchmouse]

I try to do some strength training every other day, schedule and energy permitting, but the daily runs are a hard-ingrained habit at this point from years and years. They're the habit I had the most success building and keeping, so I can't quit.

I have discovered that if I don't make a real effort to keep up with strength training, the daily cardio just wipes out whatever upper body strength I've gained. But if I stop the cardio I pile on fat like a pig.

Never in the service.
But we trained. Constantly. I ran 2 to 5 miles every morning before work as we lived in a perfect area for those. We would distance swim every weekend at the lake. Right up until I smashed my right ankle. The running/skiing (water) and such were done.
Now I can still run but there is an angry dog chasing me or fire. I will run from fire.....

 

[printcraft]

You guys are missing the big picture here...
This is where we have the crossover of transsexuals in the military.
Guys have a chopadicofftomy, the new "girls" can deadlift 500 lbs and run 5 miles.
Strong fighting military that includes "girls".
If it works for sports it can work here too.

 

[BugI02]

You guys are missing the big picture here...
This is where we have the crossover of transsexuals in the military.
Guys have a chopadicofftomy, the new "girls" can deadlift 500 lbs and run 5 miles.
Strong fighting military that includes "girls".
If it works for sports it can work here too.

Worked for the East German Swim Team

 

[actaeon277]

Army mulling changing fitness standards

Army Mulls Returning to Gendered Fitness Standards over Complaints of 'Lopsided' ACFT

This could mean men and women still would have to meet the same standards but would not be compared to one another.

www.military.com

Measuring soldiers by tiers could be one compromise, with women compared only to other women. However, they would still have to meet the minimum standards, which could change as leaders continue to tweak the test.
How do you do that, if there is no difference between genders?

"Why is the ACFT so difficult for women to pass?" Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., asked Grinston. "Does this new test find that nearly half of women aren't fit to serve?"
No. It means your social experiment is failing.

"Certainly, there's no woman that would want different or lower expectations of them, but the test shouldn't be structured [so that it] is unfair and makes it so lopsided that it's impossible for women to really be able to succeed. And that definitely will reflect in your recruitment and retention efforts," Wasserman Schultz said. "So it looks like you have a problem, and I hope you recognize that and give us some answers as to what you plan to do about that."
Ummm.. "Certainly there's no woman..". Are you sure? NO WOMEN? None?
I'm guessing the few she's met have been vetted.
I'm pretty sure you could meet some.
Just as I'm sure you would meet a few men okay with lowering their standards