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  • yellowhousejake

    Sharpshooter
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    May 25, 2009
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    Greenfield
    Can't emphasize that enough. DO NOT.

    ONE selfish action by ONE civilian from ONE group that is allowed to shoot there could result in the revocation of ALL civilian shooter's privileges FOREVER.

    Everyone please heed this warning.

    Now, I imagine some of you know who I am by this point and obviously some of what I do, but what you may NOT know is WHO I am and why I'm here. To that end, I think it is prudent that I let you know that I am coming to you all in a non-antagonistic fashion; I want to see how you are doing things, and what is being taught. Highpower shooters are doing exactly the same type of shooting, and yet Nationwide, there has been a sort of reluctance for the two sets of shooters--NRA/CMP & Revere/Appleseed--to mix. I'd like to figure out why, and to what extent, that is the case, at least locally.


    Have not a clue, but I like where you are coming from. As far as the Indiana instructor crew, there has been no issue, we would love to mix it up with the NRA and HP folks.

    I, I will speak only for myself, have only crossed swords with anyone on one point. Many HP/NRA folks tend to focus on bullseye shooting and a very few have poo poo'd me as I teach 4MOA field shooting. It is not that I am sloppy, it is that I want to teach first a solid foundation of proper shooting skills.

    I have been told that a good score cannot be had with this rifle, or that ammo, or those sights. I believe borrowing Tubb's rifle and ammo is no guarantee of a 100X score. You must first develop good habits, the most important of which is the ability to be critical of your own performance. I have seen too many times a stock 10-22 with only tech sights and a sling outshoot a full Kidd rimfire. I have seen a as issued M1 smoke a full on custom AR15 too, more than a few times. As ole Huff likes to say, "it's the Indian not the arrow." In my words, "You cannot buy skill in a bubble pack on aisle 9."

    Back to "we."

    We teach field shooting, with a high emphasis on doing everything right. Position, trigger control, sight picture, and knowing your rifle... well. Our instruction is not a replacement for HP/NRA instruction. But after seeing hundreds of students improve their abilities, I cannot think of a better foundation course before diving into the world of competition.

    DAve
     

    natdscott

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    Jul 20, 2015
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    I am sure you are aware of this, but if not, here goes:

    It's much better to develop a complete schedule in the winter, and submit ALL dates for approval and scheduling at one time. Sure, sometimes we still get kicked off a range or moved from 6 to 5, but that's understandable, since it is a military base.

    But we do get preference a lot of the time as well...

    No complaints,
    -Nate
     

    natdscott

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    Full name, Address, Date of Birth, DLN & State of Issue. Also Rifle Type, Caliber, and Serial number for any rifles to be brought on base.

    These all need to be provided to your even leader well in advance of the class, as the gate roster will need to be to Range Control in adequate time for them to review, and background check if they desire, the list. Ask your leader for more guidance on this time frame, but don't dawdle.

    For any other prerequisites, I defer to somebody who actually knows what they're talking about. :)

    -Nate
     

    grunt soldier

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    71   0   0
    May 20, 2009
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    hamilton county
    Full name, Address, Date of Birth, DLN & State of Issue. Also Rifle Type, Caliber, and Serial number for any rifles to be brought on base.

    These all need to be provided to your even leader well in advance of the class, as the gate roster will need to be to Range Control in adequate time for them to review, and background check if they desire, the list. Ask your leader for more guidance on this time frame, but don't dawdle.

    For any other prerequisites, I defer to somebody who actually knows what they're talking about. :)

    -Nate

    This is pretty much what we get also and we cut of submissions like 3 weeks prior to the shoot to make sure everything is in on time. It's really easy. I have only ever seen one person get hassled at the gate and they had a suspended license. They do scan your license as you enter so make sure that is all up to date lol. We have a form you submit to YHJ and the like. then they turn it all in and make sure it's good to go :) We have never been kicked off the range before except during the gov shutdown. that was the only issues we have really ever had.
     

    MohawkSlim

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    Mar 11, 2015
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    15th Street, Bedford
    I am coming to you all in a non-antagonistic fashion; I want to see how you are doing things, and what is being taught. Highpower shooters are doing exactly the same type of shooting, and yet Nationwide, there has been a sort of reluctance for the two sets of shooters--NRA/CMP & Revere/Appleseed--to mix. I'd like to figure out why, and to what extent, that is the case, at least locally.

    For lots of reasons, it would be beneficial for all the locals to be able to come together, shoot a 200-1,000 yard Marine Corps COF, and still have enough respect and admiration for everybody else there to go get some BBQ after the light fades too much to shoot. For even more reasons, it is critical that a grassroots program exist to teach the basics of marksmanship at a level of cost and equipment that is not prohibitive to everyone that whats to learn, as National "Rifle" Association USED to care about. Highpower and conventional smallbore are too specialized and too narrowly focused to accomplish that part of things, in my educated opinion, and so I am trying to figure out who IS to fill the gap in the line.

    My opinion (and hopefully I don't sound antagonistic either) is I have zero use for a gear race where I need a cart to pull my several thousand dollars of equipment around in order to compete. I'm not sure how many guys who do NRA/CMP could still shoot well without all their gear. I'm also not sure why they "look down upon" those who don't get out past a couple hundred yards. In short, I see them as nerds with lots of money who need their gear.

    Now, that being said, every single NRA/CMP shooter I've shot with has been nothing but wonderful to me and eager to share their knowledge. I respect the hell out of them for being able to do what they do because I'm not sure I could - even WITH all that gear!

    I agree there is a gap and nobody seems to want to fill it. It's either or. Either fill your wagon up with stuff and cut the X or lay down in the mud and hit 'em somewhere. I believe the largest part of this issue comes from the hurdle of simply having few places to shoot. There are too few places in the US to shoot past a couple hundred yards and the overwhelming safety concerns and cost prohibit most from becoming interested in doing so. Much more fun and available to shoot 3-gun or IPSC to folks who've not done long range rifle. We've done little to sell ourselves.

    However, that is improving. With the prepping movement and shows on History/Military channels folks are starting to see the need for a long range capability and they are seeking out instruction on same. It's up to us to bring them into the fold. I think Appleseed/Revere's is looked upon in the community as the "start" or the "fundamental training program" and then CMP/NRA is an extension or progression of that. In truth, both are good places to start and neither is the "little brother." It's just a different style of shooting that shares quite a bit of common knowledge. So in that regard, I don't think there's a bridge to gap between the two styles.

    I think our bridge to gap is getting people interested in long range rifle shooting in general. Marketing it as something as necessary to a shooter's tool kit as concealed carry or safe handling of a firearm. People still don't think they need to know how to do this stuff. Until they do, it doesn't matter whether we market it as a traditional skill our forefathers owned or a technically challenging outdoorsy game. They'll shrug off both.
     

    cbhausen

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    Feb 17, 2010
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    Top Gun had a tangible effect on Naval Aviator interest and recruitment... Could/has American Sniper do the same for civilian long range shooting or is this too non-PC?
     

    natdscott

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    Hawk, thanks for your candor. I've seen, heard, and probably been part of much of what you describe. Many of us DO have a lot of gear, no doubt about that; some of us have a lot of money in it, and some don't have as much. I will say, though, that most of the guys at the upper end can shoot just about anything, anywhere. We come from just as varied backgrounds in shooting as anybody else. Me? I didn't take up ANY target sport until relatively late in the game. Turns out though, that some skills learned in all the "one shot" games played in the woods transfer pretty okay.

    It's really interesting, this sliding scale...we view the conventional smallbore crowd much the same as you, in turn, view us. I'd be willing to bet that your local dude that has never done anything but take his Pardner to the deer woods, and considers that enough for him, views YOU the same way... ;)

    Like I said...still trying to figger it out.

    Top Gun had a tangible effect on Naval Aviator interest and recruitment... Could/has American Sniper do the same for civilian long range shooting or is this too non-PC?

    You know, that's a very tough question to answer, cb. Having a fair amount of experience with the thing, and a lot of friends that have been employed behind precision rifles, I still have to say that the public attitude is somewhat enigmatic even today. Despite Hollywood's attempts, it doesn't seem to have the perceived nobility of other occupations.

    I think the precision aspect of the thing appeals to many Americans, due, I suppose, to the roots of our country...as long as it's in the safe confines of "over there", or is viewed through the sterility of a video screen. That being said, it is still a touchy topic with many people (even in rural areas and amongst "Der hunters"), when you really get into the nitty gritty of what makes a precision shooter, or if you begin to have any discussion that that is what you do for a hobby, or as a job. It has been my direct observation that it makes a lot more people nervous than you might think, and from backgrounds I'd not have expected.

    It seems that it is still a skill set that makes the herd of sheep, and even a lot of the sheepdogs, kinda cringe, and automatically--even reflexively--question motives.

    As for your original question about what effect the movies are having...I think very little additional effect, really. We are seeing the same types of 'kids' come into our Sniper forum, buy a rifle or at least price them, see that it is not a game and is actually pretty hard, and quit (or stay with it and actually learn to shoot) as we always did. The movies have gotten some discussion, as expected, but I'm not seeing that all of a sudden 20 more people are showing up to our LR matches with Krylon-covered scoped rifles.

    -Nate
     
    Last edited:

    nad63

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    Oct 3, 2011
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    Tick tock.....
    Any progress or info to share on this potential event. Are we looking at something for 2015 or is that not going to happen?
    Thanks in advance.
     

    grunt soldier

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    Tick tock.....
    Any progress or info to share on this potential event. Are we looking at something for 2015 or is that not going to happen?
    Thanks in advance.

    It's the government sir. the only thing that happens quickly is taxes! YHJ is working on it so I can assure you that as soon as he knows something we will know something. The paperwork and dates have been submitted. Just waiting on approval!
     

    ol' Huff

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    Mar 8, 2012
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    Here's the deal, Nigel, straight from the boss so you know it's the good stuff. Reveres has placed all of its ducks in the proper row. We have requested *********¥¥¥¥¥ as a date to do it. Other parties have committed resources to the function.

    The only thing anyone is waiting on is approval from the base. The instant (and I mean the instant) we are greenlit myself or YHJ will post it here. Because you are a nice guy, and because I'm so awesome, I will send you a pm when we get our approval ten minutes before it's posted here!

    Without going ring into it too much the drop off in base personnel with the drawdown has made things weird there. Reveres is ready. Have been for months. Others don't move with the same fluid adaptability we have. But, after all, we sleep on our arms and have three days biscuit ready at all times.
     
    Last edited:

    nad63

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    Here's the deal, Nigel, straight from the boss so you know it's the good stuff. Reveres has placed all of its ducks in the proper row. We have requested *********¥¥¥¥¥ as a date to do it. Other parties have committed resources to the function.

    The only thing anyone is waiting on is approval from the base. The instant (and I mean the instant) we are greenlit myself or YHJ will post it here. Because you are a nice guy, and because I'm so awesome, I will send you a pm when we get our approval ten minutes before it's posted here!

    Without going ring into it too much the drop off in base personnel with the drawdown has made things weird there. Reveres is ready. Have been for months. Others don't move with the same fluid adaptability we have. But, after all, we sleep on our arms and have three days biscuit ready at all times.

    It's the government sir. the only thing that happens quickly is taxes! YHJ is working on it so I can assure you that as soon as he knows something we will know something. The paperwork and dates have been submitted. Just waiting on approval!

    Well at least you guys got your story straight!
    Glad to see that all the paper works done and we are just waiting on the Army to make a decision.
    Thanks guys for the update. I'll be waiting for the signal.
     

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