AR PCC vs Scorpion, etc

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  • Sonsofthunder

    Plinker
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    Jan 7, 2012
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    There's not much to it, really. It's more "assembly" than building...plenty of youtube videos out there on how to do it. It helps to have certain tools, but not completely necessary.

    I just used basic parts:
    CMMG Barrel and BCG Combo
    Aero Precision XL Upper (for the enlarged ejection port)
    Aero Precision Atlas-S One Handguard
    Anderson Lower
    Larue MBT-2 Trigger
    Generic Lower Parts Kit (don't remember...probably whatever was cheapest)
    Generic Mil-Spec Charging Handle (don't remember the brand)
    Don't remember where I got the spring, buffer, and buffer tube
    The rest of the furniture is magpul.

    Nothing too fancy...but it's a darn nice shooting rifle. Sadly, the pandemic hit shortly after I put it together, so I haven't shot it as much as I'd like. Probably only have 7-800 rounds through it. .223 has been more abundant and just as cheap to shoot, so I've been shooting that more.
    Thanks. Ill have to look into this and see if its close to as affordable as then. I've only heard great reviews on the banshee and their roller delayed system for shoot ability
     

    mmpsteve

    Real CZ's have a long barrel!!
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    Nov 14, 2016
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    ..... formerly near the Wild Turkey
    Thanks. Ill have to look into this and see if its close to as affordable as then. I've only heard great reviews on the banshee and their roller delayed system for shoot ability

    Being as I have more $$ than time (only marginally), I bought into the factory complete Banshee. I now have three - 8" 10mm, 5" 9mm, and 8" 9mm. I recommend them highly. My wife loves her little 5" 9mm, and that's impressive because she is not a fan of recoil.

    I know not everyone's budget allows it, but if I was even close, I'd save up a little more for a Banshee. They shoot softer than my Ruger PCC 9mm with direct blowback, even though it's quite a bit heavier.

    .
     

    Sonsofthunder

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Jan 7, 2012
    37
    8
    Being as I have more $$ than time (only marginally), I bought into the factory complete Banshee. I now have three - 8" 10mm, 5" 9mm, and 8" 9mm. I recommend them highly. My wife loves her little 5" 9mm, and that's impressive because she is not a fan of recoil.

    I know not everyone's budget allows it, but if I was even close, I'd save up a little more for a Banshee. They shoot softer than my Ruger PCC 9mm with direct blowback, even though it's quite a bit heavier.

    .
    Thanks for the feedback. They def look really nice and haven't heard anything about reliability problems, etc
     

    BigRed3588

    Sharpshooter
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    10   0   0
    Dec 4, 2013
    462
    63
    Boynton Beach
    I was down to the Scorpion and the Ruger PCC and ultimately went with the PCC. Not sure if it’s something you’re interested in but it’s a good buy for the money. I was able to outfit it with an SB tactical folding brace and Sig Romeo 5 for about the same as I would’ve paid for the stock Scorpion pistol alone. It comes with a threaded barrel, Glock mag well insert, reversible controls, and the grip is interchangeable with AR grips. I like the ergonomics and the trigger is much better than I expected. The takedown feature is pretty nice as well. The only real knock I’d give it is in the recoil department. Nothing terrible but more than I expected from a pistol cartridge in a gun I shoot from the shoulder.
     

    92FSTech

    Expert
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    3   0   0
    Dec 24, 2020
    1,156
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    North Central
    Being as I have more $$ than time (only marginally), I bought into the factory complete Banshee. I now have three - 8" 10mm, 5" 9mm, and 8" 9mm. I recommend them highly. My wife loves her little 5" 9mm, and that's impressive because she is not a fan of recoil.

    I know not everyone's budget allows it, but if I was even close, I'd save up a little more for a Banshee. They shoot softer than my Ruger PCC 9mm with direct blowback, even though it's quite a bit heavier.
    I'll second this. I had a Ruger PC Carbine as well, and while it functioned reliably, it was heavy and didn't shoot as soft or as flat as my CMMG build. I also didn't care for the chintzy feeling takedown nut, or the fact that you had to use a wrench to take it apart for cleaning. Mine would shake the bolts (especially the one in the charging handle) loose if you didn't torque them down really tight...tight enough that I envisioned stripped threads in it's future. Once I got the CMMG up and running I traded the Ruger on a beat up old Speed-Six. I have no regrets.

    I did really like the traditional form factor of the Ruger, though. If somebody would make a lightweight M1 Carbine type gun in 9mm with some kind of locking or even delayed-blowback action (not straight blowback), they'd get my money.

    How does that 10mm Banshee shoot? That sounds like a really fun, potent PCC.
     

    Sonsofthunder

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 7, 2012
    37
    8
    There's not much to it, really. It's more "assembly" than building...plenty of youtube videos out there on how to do it. It helps to have certain tools, but not completely necessary.

    I just used basic parts:
    CMMG Barrel and BCG Combo
    Aero Precision XL Upper (for the enlarged ejection port)
    Aero Precision Atlas-S One Handguard
    Anderson Lower
    Larue MBT-2 Trigger
    Generic Lower Parts Kit (don't remember...probably whatever was cheapest)
    Generic Mil-Spec Charging Handle (don't remember the brand)
    Don't remember where I got the spring, buffer, and buffer tube
    The rest of the furniture is magpul.

    Nothing too fancy...but it's a darn nice shooting rifle. Sadly, the pandemic hit shortly after I put it together, so I haven't shot it as much as I'd like. Probably only have 7-800 rounds through it. .223 has been more abundant and just as cheap to shoot, so I've been shooting that more.
    Just a quick search of those parts (I looked at complete lower) looks like it would be around $1100 currently. The question is would it be better to spend a little more if you caught the banshee on sale for 1300 and have their warranty, etc?
     

    Haven

    Network Warlord
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    3   0   0
    Nov 6, 2016
    3,251
    113
    Camby Area
    I've got two Scorpions, the pistol and the carbine. The things I have done so far is replace the safeties with the AK style safeties.

    I have an HBI trigger kit, but I haven't put it on either one yet.
     

    92FSTech

    Expert
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    3   0   0
    Dec 24, 2020
    1,156
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    North Central
    Just a quick search of those parts (I looked at complete lower) looks like it would be around $1100 currently. The question is would it be better to spend a little more if you caught the banshee on sale for 1300 and have their warranty, etc?

    Yeah, unfortunately everything is more expensive these days. If you've already got an AR, the cool thing about the pmag conversions is they can run in any lower, and the CMMG RDB system uses a standard carbine buffer...so you could just build yourself an upper and slap in on your existing lower when you want to shoot pistol caliber. That would save you a couple of hundred bucks right now.

    Then there's the option of buying the factory Banshee for $1300, but that starts to put you really close to an MPX or some of the roller-delayed MP5 clones like the PTR 9CT. It's a hard call. If I hadn't been able to piece the CMMG gun together for what I did, I'd probably have just kept my Ruger PC Carbine and made do with that.
     

    jsx1043

    Master
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    50   0   0
    Apr 9, 2008
    4,987
    113
    Napghanistan
    I know it may be an odd entry into the conversation, but what about a Kel-Tec Sub2000? I have a blast with mine. Mine goes in the car for my go bag, fits in a laptop compartment, ammo is (fairly) cheap, mags are plentiful, controls are pistol-like, upgrades are cheap, and overall it’s not an expensive one if it turns up missing for any reason.

    It’s not as sexy as a Scorpion, Stribog, MPX, B&T, MP5, or AR PCC, but it’ll do work. My kids love to shoot mine.
     

    Sonsofthunder

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Jan 7, 2012
    37
    8
    I have heard that some people like the kel tec. Their guns are very unique, perhaps quirky, but they seem to work well. I do like the concept and concealability. I was actually considering their new .22 pistol for teaching my kids as well, as it is more compact and seems reliable.
     

    mmpsteve

    Real CZ's have a long barrel!!
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Nov 14, 2016
    5,869
    113
    ..... formerly near the Wild Turkey
    I'll second this. I had a Ruger PC Carbine as well, and while it functioned reliably, it was heavy and didn't shoot as soft or as flat as my CMMG build. I also didn't care for the chintzy feeling takedown nut, or the fact that you had to use a wrench to take it apart for cleaning. Mine would shake the bolts (especially the one in the charging handle) loose if you didn't torque them down really tight...tight enough that I envisioned stripped threads in it's future. Once I got the CMMG up and running I traded the Ruger on a beat up old Speed-Six. I have no regrets.

    I did really like the traditional form factor of the Ruger, though. If somebody would make a lightweight M1 Carbine type gun in 9mm with some kind of locking or even delayed-blowback action (not straight blowback), they'd get my money.

    How does that 10mm Banshee shoot? That sounds like a really fun, potent PCC.

    The 10mm was my first Banshee. I liked it well enough that I went on to get the two 9mm's. Has a definite authoritative thump, with just a little more recoil than the 9mm's, more like a push than a thump, in terms of recoil.

    It's gonna sound silly, but aside from my rimfires, if I could only have one centerfire do-it-all rifle, it might would be the one. Handy and a joy to shoot, with enough power to reach out there and do real work at 100 yards or better. The full power loads, Underwoods in particular, are screaming fast out of the 8" barrel. I need to put some over the chronograph, just to know.

    I know AR's in 556 are maybe more versatile, and better at 200 or 300 yards, but I hope I never have to do serious work at those ranges. Most of my hunting shots have been 100 yards or less, and I don't even want to imagine a scenario that would require longer range shots. If that were ever the case, though, I have that role covered with other rifles.

    .
     

    92FSTech

    Expert
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    3   0   0
    Dec 24, 2020
    1,156
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    North Central
    The 10mm was my first Banshee. I liked it well enough that I went on to get the two 9mm's. Has a definite authoritative thump, with just a little more recoil than the 9mm's, more like a push than a thump, in terms of recoil.

    It's gonna sound silly, but aside from my rimfires, if I could only have one centerfire do-it-all rifle, it might would be the one. Handy and a joy to shoot, with enough power to reach out there and do real work at 100 yards or better. The full power loads, Underwoods in particular, are screaming fast out of the 8" barrel. I need to put some over the chronograph, just to know.

    I know AR's in 556 are maybe more versatile, and better at 200 or 300 yards, but I hope I never have to do serious work at those ranges. Most of my hunting shots have been 100 yards or less, and I don't even want to imagine a scenario that would require longer range shots. If that were ever the case, though, I have that role covered with other rifles.

    .
    I hear that. I've developed a great love for the PCC over the years, and am trying to get one in every caliber that I have handguns for. I still have a few to go. I know they get denigrated as underpowered, and have heard the argument that if you're going to tote a long gun, it might as well be in a true rifle caliber. While I agree there is some validity to this argument, I'm right there with you that if I was limited to one centerfire rifle, I'd probably make it a PCC, specifically my Marlin 1894C in .357 Mag. It's decently potent (over 1600 fps with a 158gr pill using the right powder), effective out to at least 150 yards, and shares ammo with a number of my wheelguns. It's lightweight, easy handling, and capable of rapid follow-up shots. Also, the muzzle blast and concussion is much lower, especialy indoors, when compared to a true rifle cartridge.


    I don't have anything in 10mm (yet), but I can see how an AR chambered in that caliber would be an excellent choice. Ballistics similar, if not even a little better, than the .357 mag out of a handy little semi-auto? That's my kind of gun!
     

    Sonsofthunder

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Jan 7, 2012
    37
    8
    Yeah, unfortunately everything is more expensive these days. If you've already got an AR, the cool thing about the pmag conversions is they can run in any lower, and the CMMG RDB system uses a standard carbine buffer...so you could just build yourself an upper and slap in on your existing lower when you want to shoot pistol caliber. That would save you a couple of hundred bucks right now.

    Then there's the option of buying the factory Banshee for $1300, but that starts to put you really close to an MPX or some of the roller-delayed MP5 clones like the PTR 9CT. It's a hard call. If I hadn't been able to piece the CMMG gun together for what I did, I'd probably have just kept my Ruger PC Carbine and made do with that.
    Great idea. I can see how that would be a more economical way to shoot 9mm. Unfortunately, I was wanting as a dedicated platform for my daughters to get familiar with and store ready as a PDW for the home.
     

    mmpsteve

    Real CZ's have a long barrel!!
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    11   0   0
    Nov 14, 2016
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    ..... formerly near the Wild Turkey
    Great idea. I can see how that would be a more economical way to shoot 9mm. Unfortunately, I was wanting as a dedicated platform for my daughters to get familiar with and store ready as a PDW for the home.

    We need more pics in this thread! I say, buy once, cry once. A quality firearm will last your daughter's lifetime, and her daughter's.

    I usually have a 15 or 17 round mag in the Banshee for handling purposes, but here it is with the 31 rounder. The pistolla is a Shadow Systems and shares the same mags.

    9mm Goodness.jpg

    .
     

    999cs

    Marksman
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    22   0   0
    Jul 8, 2021
    237
    28
    NWI
    Another Scorpion EVO owner here. Love shooting mine. Like others said it is a blast to shoot. I also have an AR9 I assembled that used a colt style Mag block and modified UZI mags. I am thinking of adding an AKV to the stable because they look also like a lot of fun and share mag compatibility with the EVO.
     

    Sonsofthunder

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Jan 7, 2012
    37
    8
    We need more pics in this thread! I say, buy once, cry once. A quality firearm will last your daughter's lifetime, and her daughter's.

    I usually have a 15 or 17 round mag in the Banshee for handling purposes, but here it is with the 31 rounder. The pistolla is a Shadow Systems and shares the same mags.

    View attachment 164279

    .
    beautiful! I keep hearing great things about the banshees. And how do you like the shadow systems compared to glock? Was patent expiration a factor in these new glock "copies" hitting the market?
     

    Sonsofthunder

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Jan 7, 2012
    37
    8
    Another Scorpion EVO owner here. Love shooting mine. Like others said it is a blast to shoot. I also have an AR9 I assembled that used a colt style Mag block and modified UZI mags. I am thinking of adding an AKV to the stable because they look also like a lot of fun and share mag compatibility with the EVO.
    Thanks for the input. Ive seen several scorpions that just look awesome. Still kinda stuck between the two :-S
     

    hoosierfishing

    Sharpshooter
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    Jul 17, 2010
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    I know it may be an odd entry into the conversation, but what about a Kel-Tec Sub2000? I have a blast with mine. Mine goes in the car for my go bag, fits in a laptop compartment, ammo is (fairly) cheap, mags are plentiful, controls are pistol-like, upgrades are cheap, and overall it’s not an expensive one if it turns up missing for any reason.

    It’s not as sexy as a Scorpion, Stribog, MPX, B&T, MP5, or AR PCC, but it’ll do work. My kids love to shoot mine.
    I love mine. I went with the MCarbo special :)
     
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