AR-15 - Do you prefer sights or scopes?

[esrice]

Shooting with both eyes open is a personal preference. I don't shoot with both eyes open, I was taught and trained to only shoot with my dominant eye, which is my right eye. I find my shots to be much more accurate, which is why I use the open sight rather than tube. I can see my targets with one eye closed while still maintaining great accuracy, as opposed to looking through a tube which blocks my vision.

I believe that red dot sights are designed and intended to be used heads-up with both eyes open, at distances from 0-100 yards. That is why they do what they do, and why folks can shoot so much faster with them.

That being said, it is certainly still possible to use them with 1 eye closed, although you will experience the issues that you've noted above-- namely having no peripheral vision and having the site body block your vision.

If that is your choice, then I certainly understand the desire to use an "open" design. Keep in mind that my perspective comes from fighting with a rifle, and not competitive shooting or long-range marksmanship.

I've tried both, I prefer open sights to tube. You may shoot with both eyes open and not lose peripheral vision, but most shooters shoot with 1 eye closed.

Most shooters I've encountered using red dot sights shoot with both eyes open. Magnified scopes are a different animal, and it does indeed help to close the non-dominant eye.

As far as the Osprey optics, I think performance on a RDS depends more on the shooter than it does the sight itself. As long as both hold zero and the batteries work, it's up to the shooter to make the shot count.

I would say that accuracy is indeed mostly dependent on the shooter. Its up to the RDS, however, to maintain zero, have an adequate battery life, be tough enough to withstands bumps and scrapes, and work in varying climates and conditions.

Just because they are made with foreign parts and sold for $300-$400 less than the US made ones doesn't mean they are "crap".

Aimpoints are foreign-- they are made in Sweden.

I don't mean to argue on here but I feel you should take into account that some people might not have $500 to spend on an optic, or even want to spend on an optic for a backyard paper puncher...

Totally agree. That's why I said this earlier:

At the end of the day, however, its up to the buyer to decide what level of performance is necessary for his/her shooting regimen.

I've got a Primary Arms Micro (Aimpoint clone) with AR mount that I paid $93 for. It's a great little optic and has been mounted on everything from my AR, to a Ruger .22 pistol, to a 10/22 with great success. It has held zero and performed flawlessly for plinking and Friday Night Steel. I would recommend it to anyone. But would I put it on my "go-to" AR? Nope. I've got an Aimpoint Micro H1 on that. If its my butt on the line I want something that will absolutely work, and I have trust in the Aimpoint.

Also, people shoot different ways. Not everyone is going to shoot with both eyes open even with a red dot. I don't feel comfortable shooting that way, and I'm much more accurate my way because I am used to it.

You may be more accurate, but are you fast? Fast enough for your purposes? Could you be faster if you trained with both eyes open? Does it really matter? (rhetorical questions, just food for thought)

And I can tell you right now that it holds zero with no problems at $450 less than an EOtech. Yes, it's battery isn't going to live as long, and I wouldn't recommend taking it for a swim in the ocean, but for a backyard paper puncher it sure as hell beats spending $550. Use the other $450 and get a new pistol or some ammo if ya want...

Agreed. If you're just punching paper, there's no need to go top-end on a red dot (unless you just want to). If it goes down, you'll just simply toss it back on the bench, dig round your range bag for some tools, and fix the problem.

 

[LuckyGunner]

If I only had the option between iron sights or scopes. I would go with iron sights. My preference is to have both options available to me. So when my batteries go dead I have irons to fall back on.

When I practice I tend to use iron almost exclusively. Using a optic seems like cheating sometimes.

__________________
AR-15 ammo

 

[sgreen3]

Alot of great info here fellas, Thanks alot for the input. When the time comes I will probably invest in a red dot.

 

[scott delaney]

for me its iron ......but i have just got a new bushmaster.....my 1st......and havnt had time or money to deck it out yet......only time will tell

 

[beau.brandt]

I think it depends on what you like to shoot, I like the detachable carry handle or flattop with BUIS since you can switch back and forth if need be or the mood hits ya'.

 

[kwatters]

I am with esrice on this one, I have buis ready to go if needed but probably won't. My Aimpoint is good to go and with a battery life of 40,000 hours I don't need to worry about the battery going dead often, unlike the cheap optics.
I put my 10 year old behind my AR with a 66% target for the first time and at 100 yds. he only missed twice out of 30 rounds, I was impressed and it showed the ease of red dot use.

 

[teddy12b]

There's a cycle to everything. I honestly believe if magpul came out with a brand new "iron sight system" that was adjustable out to 600 yards, removable, and had a tacticool carry handle then people would be all over it. As it is, a removable carry handle is just old news and doesn't get the love it deserves.

Having said all of that I'm looking forward to my next trip out to the range because I'll be sighting in my new setup that using a red dot. So my personal answer to this question is one of each.

 

[DragonGunner]

I have liked scopes on all rifles since I had a BB gun!!! So my 1978 Colt AR has a scope on top the handle, although I do have the irons sighted in under it. Turns out using a scope on BB guns, .22, AR's, 30/06, 22-250....as a kid was good practice for the Army. As a Dragon gunner its fitted with about a 4 power magnification duplex....I was right at home!!! An the only one to hit 40 out of 40 moving practice targets. Ya I'm bragging I guess.....but love thems scopes.

 

[03A3]

I really like USGI sights and have always done quite well with them. But nowadays I have a hard time with my vision.
You mentioned mostly close-in work with some long range shooting too.
Here it what I suggest. It will cost dearly, but it is an excellant combo.
Aimpoint Comp M4S on Larue QD mount.
Aimpoint 3x magnifier on a Larue QD pivot mount.
Troy BUIS on the rear.
I really like this setup. You can get the magnifier off of the gun in a couple seconds. In fact you can strip it down to just the BUIS pretty quick.
Obviously the magnifier doesn't always have to be on the gun, you can carry it...well in various ways.
The Comp M4 series are excellant RDS's.

Another option that I like real well is the Aimpoint H1 on a Larue QD mount with the basic Matech 600 BUIS. This is a good combo for a lightweight gun such as a pencil barrel version. Actually the weight savings can be appreciated on any AR.

Sometimes I might spend more than I should, but I learned a long time ago that less is many times not better in the long run. I don't sell or trade anything. When I buy something it's here for the longhaul.

At some point you should consider getting a light on your AR.

PS Don't drive your tank out in front of DragonGunner or he will blow holes in it.

 

[phidelt208]

I got my mine to shoot 400-500 yards, so a scope is the only way to go for me.

 

[M67]

Why not have both?

I have a quick detatch 3.5-10 VXIII on my .308 AP4, and folding iron sights for close yardage or back up. And even at 100 yards with the irons, it still groups very well. Front sight is Midwest Industries (replaced the front post with the stock on from DPMS) and the rear is GG&G.

 

[sgreen3]

Well I dont plan on doing any real long range shooting with my Ar but ya never know I guess. Would be nice to make it serve dual duty. But mostly just "run an gun" course. Unless I can convince the ol lady I need two Ar's one for close range and one for long range

 

[thompal]

Could you be faster if you trained with both eyes open?

How does the military train now?

My dad taught me how to shoot, and he INSISTED that I shoot with both eyes open. He qualified "Expert" in the Marines in WWII with an M1 Garand, and even when he was in his 60's, could get an envious group at 100 yards. He always explained why things should be done the way he said, and it all made sense, and if I slipped and closed an eye, or some other bone-headed thing, he "reinforced" the lesson.

 

[451_Detonics]

While I agree with this in principle, keep in mind that most red dots sights are used 100 yards and in, with the majority being contact to 50 yards. Otherwise you're getting into an irons vs. magnified optics debate.

The part that slows you down with irons is in the initial lining up of your eye to the rear peep, and then to the front sight. A red dot cuts down that time by only having a single point to "line up".

A red dot also makes it easier to hit from awkward positions where lining up the rear and front sight may be more difficult.

Muscle memory can cut the initial lining up to the same time as bring up a dot, it is just a matter of practice.

 

[tv1217]

I have an 4x ACOG. Wish I'd gotten one of the lower magnification ones cause the eye relief isn't great.

 

[FutureButterBar]

i like iron sights. they never don't work

 

[FutureButterBar]

How does the military train now?

My dad taught me how to shoot, and he INSISTED that I shoot with both eyes open. He qualified "Expert" in the Marines in WWII with an M1 Garand, and even when he was in his 60's, could get an envious group at 100 yards. He always explained why things should be done the way he said, and it all made sense, and if I slipped and closed an eye, or some other bone-headed thing, he "reinforced" the lesson.

the reason one shoots with both eyes, is it allows one to see more. for tactical purposes, we are taught to look over our sights. for actually sitting back and shooting a exact target, i could not tell you. haven't got that far. sorry.

 

[Sticky]

Aperture. I even have them on my .22 squirrel rifle. I have broken scopes while hunting; but never had a aperture fail.

I was told while in the service that the human eye, with 20/20 vision, can subtend about 1/4" at 100 yards. That's good enough for most purposes. I was taught, when young, to shoot with both eyes open. Later, the military taught me the same thing (circa 1970).

 

[Elvis]

Mine is set up with red dot, 3x mag, and flip up sights. Covers all the bases without much weight. I will say most of my shooting is done with the 3x mag sitting in the gun case, but I like it for 100+yd shooting.

After reading all these comments I want go out and practice with my iron sights as its been awhile.

 

[loony1]

I like to have both on my rifles and of American made quality.