Abuses of Red Flag Law?

[Lmo1131]

I'm trying to carry on a 'conversation' about current, and proposed, Red Flag Laws with a friend and was asked to provide any instances of their abuse; where was law fraudulently was used to intimidate, accuse, someone.

A search on the internet using words like, abuse, fraudulent, illegal, etc. turns up nothing but 'pro' articles about RFL.

Has anyone heard of any cases where this has occurred? I'm sure they're out there, but how to find them.

 

[actaeon277]

Ask why it's necessary to provide proof.

we have courts. Should we get rid of them, until abuse by government can be proved?

 

[Pointman]

If we passed a law that said your neighbor could come in and inspect your refrigerator at any time without notice, but there were no cases of it being "abused" does that make it good law?

 

[bwframe]

Tucker Carlson talking on this right now...

Hopefully, we can find a clip of it to post up later?

Great monolog so far, giving the first 1/3 of the show and still talking. Names all of the back stabbing RINO's who say they will vote against us. Mentioned Lindsay Graham more than once.


.

 

[Lmo1131]

Tucker Carlson talking on this right now...

My wife told me, I missed it, had a pet emergency I had to deal with.

Ask why it's necessary to provide proof.

Not 'proof' per se, this is a somewhat heated arguement between friends. His point of view is, 'don't worry about it, until it happens', which to our point of view is ridiculous; we know it will happen, if it hasn't already... and that's what I was looking for, a report that it had already happened.

And apparently it is beyond his ability to imagine it happening to him. And come to think of it, if I did find 'evidence' of it he would probably label it was 'fake'... why do I bother?

 

[bwframe]

Updated better video...

 

[BigRed]

I would like to understand how these "red flag" laws do no fly in the face of Caniglia v Strom.


Any thoughts from the attorneys here?

 

[indyartisan]

Decorated marine and ex police
Officer Alfredo Luna
Red Flagged for Twitter comments

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm trying to carry on a 'conversation' about current, and proposed, Red Flag Laws with a friend and was asked to provide any instances of their abuse; where was law fraudulently was used to intimidate, accuse, someone.

A search on the internet using words like, abuse, fraudulent, illegal, etc. turns up nothing but 'pro' articles about RFL.

Has anyone heard of any cases where this has occurred? I'm sure they're out there, but how to find them.

Are we limiting this to Indiana?


Lame straw man arguments and YouTube fear mongering aside, Indiana has been pretty good about it. There is a situation in which a former INGOer had his guns removed under this, but those that looked into wouldn't call that abuse at all.

IANAL, so my ability to see is limited, but I haven't seen abuses here.

I have in the past posted a study of it's use in Indiana and the bottom line of that was that it had little effect on violence, but a measurable effect of suicides.


We say we don't want dangerous people having guns, but then we're afraid that the law will be used against us; sort of a double edged sword.

 

[Lmo1131]

Are we limiting this to Indiana?

Certainly not. If "Republican" Senators cave it will became nationwide.

Tucker cited a case that went to the Supreme Court and resulted in all nine Justices finding for the defendant; essentially defining Red Flag Laws as unconstitutional... haven't had time to replay the video (thanks for posting, by the way).

 

[KLB]

Certainly not. If "Republican" Senators cave it will became nationwide.

Tucker cited a case that went to the Supreme Court and resulted in all nine Justices finding for the defendant; essentially defining Red Flag Laws as unconstitutional... haven't had time to replay the video (thanks for posting, by the way).

BR referenced the case.

I would like to understand how these "red flag" laws do no fly in the face of Caniglia v Strom.


Any thoughts from the attorneys here?

 

[Destro]

I would like to understand how these "red flag" laws do no fly in the face of Caniglia v Strom.


Any thoughts from the attorneys here?

I am not an attorney, but that case revolved around the "Community Caretaking" exception to the 4th Amendment, not an actual statutory Red Flag law. The actions the officers took were not based on a "Red Flag" law.

 

[bwframe]

Sen. Young supports parts of bi-partisan agreement on gun control

The agreement includes support for states to adopt red flag laws, funding for school safety resources and enhanced background checks for gun buyers under 21 years old.

indianapublicmedia.org

Young Lukewarm On Bipartisan Gun Reform Effort In Senate; No Comment From Braun

WASHINGTON — A group of bipartisan senators in Washington are working on a compromise to pass gun reform legislation. The package is heavily invested in red flag laws and bolstering mental health screening techniques for people looking

www.wibc.com

 

[bwframe]

Age Verification - NRA

https://act.nraila.org/campaign/40989/

 

[printcraft]

“Swatting” happens all the time and we are supposed to trust people won’t attempt a red flag on someone they hate?

 

[Hawkeye7br]

While not a direct red flag incident, let me relate what happened to me many years ago as an actual example of the dangers of unintended consequences.

In the mid 1980's, my wife and I were having marital problems. We married young, had 3 kids, 12 years later things just weren't working for us. I made good money in the coal mine, but she spent it all and then some. No abuse, neither of us drank or did drugs, we lived a modest lifestyle and went to church weekly. We didn't even have shouting matches. Tried to make it work, it didn't, and eventually we ended up in divorce court. In court, her lawyer accused me of having mental problems and claimed to have written proof of me dealing with my mental health issues.

Where did his "proof" come from? When our marriage got rocky, I insisted we seek professional counseling. Not with our 80 year old pastor, not one of her family relatives or a church elder, but a professional marriage counselor. So I called a service in a neighboring community, made an appointment, and we went a few times.

It turned out the counselor was a member of the county mental health association. Her office was in a building leased or owned by the association. I didn't question either, why would I?

I made the phone call, I made the appointment, I agreed to pay the bill, and those 3 things made me the "patient". My wife and I met with her in her office, and doing so meant I had "enrolled myself in a mental health facility for the purpose of resolving my mental health problems".

Being stunned by the accusation worked in my favor. I explained to the judge what happened, my lawyer sat calmly, the judge accepted my testimony as a reasonable course of action in seeking to keep our marriage together. But imagine our world if something so simple can be used against you as a red flag, put your name on a public list, and be used to bar you from buying or owning firearms.

 

[Lmo1131]

Posting for reference > Caniglia vs Strom > https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/20-157_8mjp.pdf



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[tim87tr]

I'm trying to carry on a 'conversation' about current, and proposed, Red Flag Laws with a friend and was asked to provide any instances of their abuse; where was law fraudulently was used to intimidate, accuse, someone.

A search on the internet using words like, abuse, fraudulent, illegal, etc. turns up nothing but 'pro' articles about RFL.

Has anyone heard of any cases where this has occurred? I'm sure they're out there, but how to find them.

Some people need a link or an absolute "in their mind" reason for not giving up their rights. Lack of common sense, cognative thinking abilities and inability to recognize their constitutional rights is often a problem. Maybe a picture would help.....and ask him if he is a progressive

Edit..oh hey Lew, I just noticed your screen name. Will send you a message sometime about our travels in TX and AZ, and get a West coast update. Didn't make it quite all the way to you to CA, but maybe next time.

 

[manifest destiny]

I'll skip my screed about how utterly unconstitutional Red Flag laws are. I will point out how stupid they are in practice. If ol' Uncle Henry is a danger, per some random complaint, why wouldn't we impound ol' Uncle Henry? He is the 'danger'. Impounding one type of tool but leaving other tools for the 'danger' to use misses the entire point of the RF laws. Frankly, I suspect that the RF action might just **** off the 'danger' even more. Addressing OP, I haven't looked for RF abuses but I'm sure they exist and will only become all the more common once courts start rubber-stamping the process. And they will.

 

[jwamplerusa]

What I wrote to the 10 RINO subversives is this

"Do NOT deny citizens of this Nation due process before the law. “Red Flag” laws are disingenuous at best, and a dangerous precedent which can be weaponized at least. It is not rational to maintain someone is “too dangerous to have a gun”, but NOT dangerous enough to be removed from society. What about all of the other potential weapons the “Red Flagged” individual can still access?"

I am increasingly concerned how Red Flagged laws may be weaponized. I have written to my State Representative multiple times asking that Indiana's law be amended to address the following.

6. Amend Indiana's "Red Flag" law to place short duration hard timelines on the return of property and the restoration of all rights unless an individual is adjudicated mentally ill. Adjudication must be determined on a priority timeline, as it impacts a citizens Rights.​

​

7. Amend Indiana's "Red Flag" law to institute clear criminal liabilities for false reporting, including making the reporter liable for all costs incurred by the individual impacted by a false or erroneous "Red Flag" accusation. The criminal penalties must include incarceration.​