AAR: Real world unexpected confrontation

[jblomenberg16]

I was chatting with an INGO member the other night about a real world "MUC" situation that happened this past weekend. He and his wife had some constructive criticisms and after leaving decided that in the spirit of learning from a positive outcome, would share with the rest of INGO. I've left some fine details out to make it a bit more of a generic example, but hope the points still come through. Sorry INGO, no draw down, no intense physical confrontation, not raised voices or flashing of concealed carry badges.

Situation:

• Travelling out of state, but through a state that does recognize the IN LTCH
• Was not carrying on my person as I was planning to visit a declared gun free zone that was US Govt Property, and we did not plan to make any stops on the way
• I did have a handgun in the vehicle with me that was easily and quickly accessible
• Was travelling with a young child that was sitting in the back of my vehicle
• Middle of the day, so great visibility all around
• We had stopped short of our destination for an unplanned potty break

Confrontation:

As we pulled into a fast food restaurant in a major metropolitan area, I looked for a spot that was close to the entrance for easy in - easy out access, and also good view of the surroundings. Immediately after putting my vehicle in park and turning off the ignition, I noticed a male approaching from the passenger side rear of the vehicle. Appearance was not unusual, well groomed etc., and looked like any other person that might be walking in for a bio break or a sandwich. Two things did catch my eye however. The individual was wearing a black "Pea Coat" and made eye contact with me through my passenger side mirror as I was watching him. It was chilly (low 60's) but not enough for a heavy coat. So that did get my attention.

Rather than opening the door, I told my child to keep the seat belt on and not leave the vehicle unless I directly said to. I watched the individual walk around the front of my vehicle, now making clear eye contact with me, and approached the drivers door. Ok, I'm going on alert now. I quickly scan my mirrors to see if anyone else is approaching and I don't see anything.

So I'm starting to process the situation and take stock on what is going on here. Do I know this guy? Did I accidentally cut him off at the last intersection? Do I have a flat tire or something that he's being polite and telling me about? Am I about to get carjacked or robbed? For whatever reason my brain is saying its likely not a serious threat, as I'm not seeing any aggressive behavior other than being too close for comfort. The coat is still odd, but perhaps its just what the individual had.

I opened the door to the first stop on the hinge, and he starts talking right away, but keeps his distance. From there I closed the door and rolled the window down enough to be able to talk through and that's it, and he immediately went into an explanation. He was from out of town and his vehicle broke down and he thought it was a bad fuel pump, and he was $14 short of having enough cash on hand to get his vehicle towed. He was trying to get it restarted, and even offered for me to come over and listen for myself to prove this wasn't a scam. He asked if I knew the area and I said "no" I was from out of town. (Maybe a dumb move). He said he needed to get from this location to another town about 20 miles away and said a name that I did recognize. So that in my brain seemed "legit."

He asked if I could help him out with some money to get a tow. At this point I told him to back away from my vehicle in a polite manner (maybe too polite), as I was uncomfortable with the situation, and that I was sorry I couldn't help him. He only pleaded a bit, but after telling him to move back away from my vehicle he kinda put his hands up and said "I'm really sorry man, just trying to get a tow." He walked away and back towards the restaurant, and I watched him until he was a good distance from me.

At this point my child is complaining about really needing to "go" and I'm thinking about what to do next. I scan the mirrors again and look around, and don't see any obvious things to concern me. So I exit the vehicle, and walk around back and help get my child out of the vehicle. I immediately locked the vehicle and we walk to the entrance. I see the individual that confronted us looking into the driver's window a few cars down and hear the occupant of that vehicle saying "just keep trying." Could have been very innocent and it was a travel companion...just keep trying to start it, or if it was a scam artist, his partner in crime.

We go into the restaurant to make a potty break, and I try to angle so I can keep an eye on my vehicle and my child coming out of the restroom. I was 1/2 expecting to see someone trying to get into the vehicle, but instead just saw additional customers come in. We decided to order food, and take it with us to get back on the road. After walking back out I see the same guy sitting on the tailgate of a older truck, talking on a cell phone. I don't see the other vehicle any more.


As we leave, I roll the window down and tell the guy "good luck" and he yells back "thanks man and a thumbs up."


So...who knows, maybe a real break down and just another guy that needed a helping hand. Or, I could have been targeted for a quick buck. Never know for sure of course but a few discussion points.

1. I think I did a good job of situational awareness immediately noticing the individual approaching in an odd manner.
2. I'm not sure if I made a good call cracking my window. Better than the door being open, but still may have given the individual a means to try to force entry.
3. I probably should have restarted the vehicle. The advice I got in fact in talking through this was I should have just driven away, end of story.
4. I'm by nature a pretty polite person upon first acquaintance. I listened to the guys story, even engaged by answer a few questions. It could have been really easy for me to become locked in conversation and distracted from someone coming from another angle.
5. I'm not sure if it was smart to leave the vehicle. Had my child not had to REALLY GO to the bathroom (dad's out there, you know what I mean) I would have just driven away.

Fortunately this was a non-event in the grand scheme of things, and something to learn from.

 

[HubertGummer]

I travel through the state a lot (about 4k miles a month) and have heard a sob story like this many times in the past 7 or so years. Usually people saying "I left my wallet 2 states away and just need a little money to get gas". Usually when I am at the gas pump or eating in the truck ouside of a fast food place. I have come to the conclusion that they are no different than the grifters at every major intersection.

 

[SSGSAD]

JMHO, I think you did good .....

Do NOT open the door, just roll window .....

Keep your eyes OPEN, as you were doing .....

 

[bwframe]

I try to avoid anyone approaching me or mine with an extended weak hand palm and firm "I'm sorry, I cannot help you."

I don't travel near as much as some others but have seen a fair amount of this behavior all over.

One thing I would have done different is make sure the manager in charge is aware of the problem. You might be surprised at what they'll say. "Dang it, the cops were just here yesterday on that couple." "Thank you for letting us know! Burgers are on me. Sorry for your trouble. They will be gone when you leave."

 

[chezuki]

Sounds like you handled it fine to me, calm but firm.

The "too polite" part of MUC is something a lot of people struggle with, but in this case it didn't seem to be an issue.

 

[chezuki]

I try to avoid anyone approaching me or mine with an extended weak hand palm and firm "I'm sorry, I cannot help you."

I don't travel near as much as some others but have seen a fair amount of this behavior all over.

One thing I would have done different is make sure the manager in charge is aware of the problem. You might be surprised at what they'll say. "Dang it, the cops were just here yesterday on that couple." "Thank you! Burgers are on me. Sorry for your trouble. They will be gone when you leave."

Dammit man, I hadn't even considered the possibility of free burgers! I may re-evaluate my practices.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Another attaboy. The only thing that jumped out at me was the "familiar name" comment. You are out of state or at least very far from home. What is the likelihood that they would legitimately mention a name that made sense, connected you, etc. Just seemed odd to me.

And I know ALL about the potty issues. Daughter has a bladder the size of a pea.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Do tow trucks only take cash?

 

[MohawkSlim]

What is a MUC?

If I had to ballpark the number of folks at gas stations, c-stores and fast food restaurants that've been out of gas (or whatever) and approached me for help I'd put it in the triple digits. It happens. Sometimes it's legit. Sometimes it's a scam.

The important thing is to listen to those spidey senses. None of these situations are exactly alike so you don't want to be complacent and just get out ignoring them every single time but, 99% of the time keeping it moving works. "Sorry, man...and we gotta go. 'scuse us. Good luck."

Feel it out. Formulate a plan. Err on the side of caution. Seems like you did all those things and drove away just fine. That's a win.

 

[MCgrease08]

What is a MUC?

Managing Unknown Confrontation.

 

[MohawkSlim]

Thanks. Does that come from a class or book or something? Or is that an "INGOism?"

 

[jblomenberg16]

Good comments in reply. Definitely posting in the effort to learn for myself and give others a chance to think "what would I have done" in that situation. One thing I didn't put in my original post that I should have was that I did feel the adrenaline starting to flow. Nothing even close to a full dump that I've had in other more serious situations, but heart rate was picking up and when talking to the individual my voice was a bit higher pitched than normal given my throat was tightening up. No cotton mouth or weak knees after wards, but my body was definitely starting to think it might be more than a casual conversation. In the few cases where I've been in an emergency (or perceived emergency) I noticed this same thing.


Camera - the name mentioned was a name of a town not far from there, and it was not a common name...it was very unique. I just happened to know about it from the night before looking at the map to determine my best route. That's one of the key bits of info that helped me rationalize a bit that it may have been a legitimate situation vs. a scam. Then again, we were 20 minutes from there, so a good scammer probably knows the local cities and towns pretty well.

BW- Good point on the burgers. Didn't think about notifying the management. I'll be honest, I was more concerned on looking out the door while ordering food than to have the thought of notifying them cross my mind. What was interesting is that some of the other customers in the restaurant must have noticed me keeping an eye on the parking lot. Had a few look out there, and had more acknowledgement from random people in the restaurant than normal. Not the polite smile after inadvertent eye contact or accidentally bumping into each other. More of the head nod, "have a good one" type of look. Perhaps I was just hyper sensitive too and was paying more attention to those in the restaurant too. Maybe I'm normally a little less aware of that!!

Dirtbiker-

The one example I know of from my own experience was getting towed in Bloomington in college (I was DD that night and apparently parked in a tow away zone). It was a straight up cash transaction that night to get out of the impound. Betting a lot of local places request a cash deal to prevent getting stiffed.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Out of impound is cash only sometimes. However on the roadside cash is king, but they'll happily take your credit. Its all the same to them since they know not everyone has $200 in their pockets. (but thousands behind the plastic)

 

[chezuki]

Managing Unknown [STRIKE]Confrontation[/STRIKE] contacts.

FIFY.

 

[chezuki]

Thanks. Does that come from a class or book or something? Or is that an "INGOism?"

It's a part of Shivworks ECQC which is also taught (with permission) in Paladin Combatives' "Managing Confrontations" class.

 

[wtburnette]

Had something similar happen to me last summer. Got out of my car at a restaurant and headed in to meet a buddy of mine. Just out of my car a lady confronts me asking me to take her to another location where her daughter was just involved in an accident, or to give her money to help her get there. The lady was talking fast and in an almost hysterical manner. Things were just starting to click that I was going to have to figure a way to extricate myself from the situation when a police cruiser drove up and the officer started yelling at the lady to come over. She finally went over and he told me to beat it. He said she was known for pulling these stunts and I was lucky he happened by. Didn't get any more information than that, but I decided not to try to find out anything more, just went in and ate. Bottom line for me is to not be in a hurry and scan the parking lot before getting out of the car. I've been working on my SA since that incident.

 

[rhino]

I opened the door to the first stop on the hinge, and he starts talking right away, but keeps his distance. From there I closed the door and rolled the window down enough to be able to talk through and that's it, and he immediately went into an explanation. He was from out of town and his vehicle broke down and he thought it was a bad fuel pump, and he was $14 short of having enough cash on hand to get his vehicle towed. He was trying to get it restarted, and even offered for me to come over and listen for myself to prove this wasn't a scam. He asked if I knew the area and I said "no" I was from out of town. (Maybe a dumb move). He said he needed to get from this location to another town about 20 miles away and said a name that I did recognize. So that in my brain seemed "legit."

First, the results speak for themselves. Your family is safe! Win!

It may be nothing, but I'm inclined to believe it was not legit. Honest people who truly need help assume you will believe them. People who are trying to scam or con you are expecting a need to overcome your doubt, and thus offer "proof."

 

[MohawkSlim]

It's a part of Shivworks ECQC which is also taught (with permission) in Paladin Combatives' "Managing Confrontations" class.

Awesome. Thanks.

It's amazing how many of these training blocks are already named something official. I wonder if we'll ever get to the point someday when we'll be battling over who was first to use which term. "Workspace!"

 

[Brad69]

I get approached like that at least once a week.

1. Eye contact and a firm look will discourage about 50%.

2. Do not let them start the story "sorry I don't have anything for you" if they continue you respond louder "I don't have anything for you"
IT,S NEVER A TRUE STORY!

You could be setting youself up for an attack!

3. Be prepared for the situation to go from normal to insane in about two seconds. You are dealing with a predator they are taking advantage of people's sympathetic traits. Some are harmless some are completely crazy.
If they act crazy I go ballistic right back it throws them off guard and draws attention to the situation from bystanders.

If in a strange metropolitan town fast food joints not a good idea they are a prime robbery target and tend to attract scumbags. You would be much better served to stop in a target, wal mart, Sam club for a bathroom break. Brand named restaurant's Cracker Barrel, ect. for food.
Truck Stops and rest areas pose a separate danger among the normal crime of drugs,hookers and a generally rough crowd. You have the "Drifter" often mentality ill desperate and no place to go but up because they are at rock bottom. Most of them are survivors and the scariest people I have encountered.

Do not be intimidated they can smell fear and do not get "target fixation".

Oh and stay out of Illinois!

 

[KJQ6945]

Like others have said, I get this at least once a week. I work in some real nice areas.
Typically they are just pan handlers running a scam. I've given up on social politeness in these contacts.

Way to stay alert OP.