9mm as powerful as a 44 magnum?

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  • kyle1058

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    This is probably gonna be an ugly thread, but grab the popcorn.. :popcorn:



    I've been shooting for 18 years, and i've been carrying for almost 3, and recently i've been looking for a second or backup carry gun. Currently i carry a Glock 19 (not the only firearm i own).

    I've been carrying/shooting gold dots and corbon +P JHP's, and noticed most of the ammo said it had 460 to 499 ft lbs of energy... that's right up there almost to a 44 magnum, and more than a 357 magnum.

    Also looking at 38 special +p ammo that's in the range of a 380!! (same type of bullet/load, just different caliber)

    Can someone explain to me how I can carry a 9mm semi-auto handgun with 16 rounds of ammo that packs more punch per round than a .357 magnum, or am I completely missing something besides energy, bullet weight, and expansion?

    Not getting into penetration, i know some rounds would exit a target of flesh or ballistic gel...

    I'm just trying to understand a few things before i drop cash on another carry gun.


    I appreciate all input,
    Thanks!
    -Kyle
     

    5.56'aholic

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    id say the number you are quoting for a 44 has to be a wad cutter load or target load, most 44's will produce in the 800-1000 ft/lb range at muzzle, 600 or more at 100 yrds. also, one needs to consider if you are looking at personal defense ammo vs hunting.
     
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    Hoosier9

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    Ammo varies across brands, but generally speaking, your hottest .357 magnum ammo will always be more powerful (in terms of energy) than your hottest 9mm loads. 9mm does not approach .44 magnum energy levels, but the hottest 9mm may be close to a very lightly loaded .44 magnum, perhaps loaded to .44 special velocities. Very good 9mm ammo approaches some standard commercial .357 magnum energy, although the 9mm uses lighter bullets to achieve this energy level.

    Barrel length also plays a part in energy. Longer barrels generally get more velocity, and that means more muzzle energy.

    An example, with ammo from the same company:

    Double Tap Ammo

    9mm 115 grain +P at 1415 feet per second from a Glock 17 = 511 ft. lbs. energy

    .357 magnum 125 grain at 1600 feet per second from a 4" Ruger GP-100 = 710 ft. lbs. energy

    .44 Special 180 grain at 1150 feet per second from a 5.5" barrel = 529 ft. lbs. energy

    .44 magnum 240 grain at 1380 feet per second from a 6" Colt Anaconda = 1014 ft. lbs energy


    Despite not really being comparable to .44 magnum, a hot 9mm with 400-500 ft. lbs. of energy is no slouch. For concealability, weight and capacity, you can't do much better than a Glock 19 loaded with good ammo for a carry weapon!
     

    kyle1058

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    a 357 mag with 710 ft lbs of energy? I'm going by Speer numbers and a couple other manufacturers.

    And no, i'm not trolling.. not one bit.

    Given the fact that i would want to get shot by a bb gun, i am looking for a personal protection handgun. (another, actually)

    I'm not talking a 6" barrel either, gonna be a snubby j frame or a small semi-auto, and even given fast burning powder or short barrel ammo, you can only achieve so much.

    so ballistically, can the best commercial available 9mm round compare to a .357 magnum in a snubby j-frame or even the 44 mag?

    I'm seeing numbers that don't make sense... marketing?
     

    Hoosier9

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    Considering their propensity for misrepresenting their ammunition, I can't say I'd trust any of their numbers ;)

    Wow, didn't know that! I've never used their ammo, just noticed that they posted their numbers. Buffalo Bore posts similar numbers, so I didn't think anything of it. Their 125 grain .357 magnum ammo is listed at 1600 fps out of a 4" L frame for 710 ft. lbs. of energy. They have a 115 grain +P+ 9mm load that they list as 1389 fps out of a Glock 19, for 492 ft. lbs.

    Anyway, if the OP is looking for a snubby or a small auto, these numbers will be less across the board. I'd recommend a small 9mm pistol, and not worrying about energy numbers. 9mm +P handily outperforms a .38 +P in comparable barrel lengths, and small, lightweight .357 magnum snubbies kick like mules and are limited to 5 shots. If you go with a larger 6 shot snubby (K frame, L frame), they are so bulky, you might as well pack your G19.

    :twocents:
     

    Hoosier9

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    Sure, it's just as good as a .44 Mag.

    As far as a self-defense carry weapon, it's not just as good as a .44 mag. It's better! Higher capacity, easier reloads, more controllable, less expensive ammo for more practice, lighter, slimmer and easier-to-carry platforms, and very effective in modern JHP loads.

    I'd take a 9mm over a .44 mag in a heartbeat for EDC. Unless my main concern was getting mugged by a bear or wild boar, of course! :)
     

    gunman41mag

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    As far as a self-defense carry weapon, it's not just as good as a .44 mag. It's better! Higher capacity, easier reloads, more controllable, less expensive ammo for more practice, lighter, slimmer and easier-to-carry platforms, and very effective in modern JHP loads.

    I'd take a 9mm over a .44 mag in a heartbeat for EDC. Unless my main concern was getting mugged by a bear or wild boar, of course! :)

    But the OP said the 9MM as powerful as the 44 MAG:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     

    Fishersjohn48

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    Lighten up guys. The OP asked a legit question just tried to make it a little interesting and we dog pile on him like a goat in a lion cage.
     

    JB75

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    ft lbs. of energy is misleading. In the 40's John Talylor came up with a formula to figure the knock out value of a round. Take the bullet weight in grains multiply it by the bullet diameter in inches then take that figure and multiply it by the velocity in feet per second and divide the whole lot by 7000. The higher the number the better the knockdown value.
     

    dom1104

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    9mm.

    Its 44 mag on the interwebs.






    I think the firearms community lost a lot when people stopped shooting animals.
     

    Hoosier8

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    Polar bear has been successfully hunted and killed with a 44 magnum revolver. Do not try this at home and do not try it with a 9mm.
     

    Hoosier9

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    ft lbs. of energy is misleading. In the 40's John Talylor came up with a formula to figure the knock out value of a round. Take the bullet weight in grains multiply it by the bullet diameter in inches then take that figure and multiply it by the velocity in feet per second and divide the whole lot by 7000. The higher the number the better the knockdown value.

    At least ft. lbs. of energy is a real figure.

    And of course, I am definitely NOT arguing that 9mm is comparable to .44 magnum. .44 magnum is twice as powerful, load for load. But pistol bullets have no "knockdown" power, short of hitting the central nervous system or breaking a bone and making someone collapse.
     

    Hoosier8

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    At least ft. lbs. of energy is a real figure.

    And of course, I am definitely NOT arguing that 9mm is comparable to .44 magnum. .44 magnum is twice as powerful, load for load. But pistol bullets have no "knockdown" power, short of hitting the central nervous system or breaking a bone and making someone collapse.

    If a bullet had knockdown power, then it would knock you down shooting it. Physics and all.
     

    kyle1058

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    Wow, didn't know that! I've never used their ammo, just noticed that they posted their numbers. Buffalo Bore posts similar numbers, so I didn't think anything of it. Their 125 grain .357 magnum ammo is listed at 1600 fps out of a 4" L frame for 710 ft. lbs. of energy. They have a 115 grain +P+ 9mm load that they list as 1389 fps out of a Glock 19, for 492 ft. lbs.

    Anyway, if the OP is looking for a snubby or a small auto, these numbers will be less across the board. I'd recommend a small 9mm pistol, and not worrying about energy numbers. 9mm +P handily outperforms a .38 +P in comparable barrel lengths, and small, lightweight .357 magnum snubbies kick like mules and are limited to 5 shots. If you go with a larger 6 shot snubby (K frame, L frame), they are so bulky, you might as well pack your G19.

    :twocents:

    Yes, i'm looking for a snubby or small auto that if i want, i can use as an ankle gun. I'm talking short barrel velocities. From what i've seen in terms of numbers not ballistics gel, the 9mm seems superior to the 38 special, 380, and even the 357 mag.

    i absolutely love capacity, but if i get naysayers that can prove the 357 magnum is superb, i wont mind 5 shot capacity.

    Hoosier8 as far as physics, you are wrong. If you shoot a 16 gauge 2 3/4" slug do you feel 1600 foot pounds of energy in your shoulder? No. Any action causes an equal and opposite reaction, but it doesn't translate on a linear scale.


    And to everyone saying i'm hunting bears and big game, that's irrelevant, i'm talking a carry weapon, let's keep it civil and call it 8 to 12 inches of ballistic gel.

    My main goal is to put a threat down as quickly as possible and put as much energy into the target without wasting energy by exiting the target... expansion and stopping and putting the energy where it needs to go. Hydrostatic would be the primary goal.
    Not looking to kill people, just want something lethal that can be used as a carry round that will make an attacker horizontal without having to receive much return fire. We're talking worst case scenario, but back to topic, i'd like to see someone post numbers of factory loads of a 357 magnum over 500 ft pounds.

    In any case, still curious. I have been wanting a .357 j-frame smith and wesson, but with what i've seen i'm considering a keltec p-11 or kahr style small semi-auto. Recoil is no issue to me.
     
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