8 yrs of fear overcame w/ 22LR! What is next? LCP in 380?

[Jenn]

My EDC as of now is LCP II lite rack in 22LR because it’s easy to conceal, and not overly loud. I consider myself to be fairly accurate, for my first go with it. A lot more than I was with a 380 or 9mm.

If I can handle 22LR stingers in the LCP II (despite not liking the muzzle flash), would I be able to handle 380 in the LCP II, or LCP max next? I would need to start with lower power cartridges before getting into the standard.
I saw that the muzzle energy for the stingers is 191. I saw that some 380 cartridges to be as low as 200.
Since the LCP II is the same body, would it be comparable.. or would 380 still be closer to 9mm in loudness and flash? I don’t think it’s the actual recoil that bothers me. It’s mostly the loudness and muzzle flash.
If comparing the muzzle energy from two different calibers isn’t a great way of making a decision, could you explain?

My goal is to be able to use a 380 or maybe a 9mm eventually as my EDC.
I’m leaning towards LCP max, or Sig P365 in 380..

The sig is a little small in my hands but nothing like the original LCP. I feel like it would be a good compromise of ease of concealment, and capacity.

Less likely cause I don’t want to send myself back into fear (all in 9mm):
P365, p365 XL, Hellcat, Hellcat Pro, Shield Plus.


Backstory if you’d like to read
———————————————
Long story short: many years ago, I went to the range for the first and only time using a tiny 380, and a full size 9mm handgun. My body went numb and shaky… ever since then I could not pull the trigger. I would flinch and jump whenever I was around others shooting at the range.
I just overcame my fear of pulling the trigger with 2 different 22LR pistols!!

For me, it is not the muzzle flip.. it is the sound (even doubling up on ear pro) and the muzzle flash. I do not even like seeing lightning at night from the window, and I will put on ear muffs when there’s loud thunder.
I am light and sound sensitive, which I believe I can work through to a reasonable extent with time.

9mm rounds are too flashy and way too loud for me right now.

I have a full size 22 with a flash can, and a LCP II in 22.
I started with quiet suppressor rounds and ended my range visit using CCI stingers in both.

 

[Route 45]

I saw that the muzzle energy for the stingers is 191. I saw that some 380 cartridges to be as low as 200.

That energy figure is from a rifle test barrel. Energy of the CCI Stinger from the LCP is about 90 ft. lbs.

The Rimfire Report: The Ultra Hot CCI Stinger In Ballistic Gelatin

Today we'll be testing the CCI Stinger 32-grain load in ballistic gelatin to see how it performs as a personal defense round.

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I'd recommend the P365 in .380. I've shot one, and they are very mild in recoil and report. Muzzle flash will depend on which ammo you select, some are better than others with regards to the use of flash-suppressed powders. You might try Federal Hydrashok Low Recoil. Most .380 is going to be around 200 ft. lbs. of energy out of a pocket pistol, a little more or less depending on the particular load.

I personally think that good flat nose FMJ is as good as anything in .380, as the JHP offerings just barely make the penetration standards of a standard service caliber. When it comes to self defense ammo, expansion is the icing, penetration is the cake.

 

[snorko]

Route 45 posted almost word for word what I was going to say. Smaller guns with shorter barrels tend to have more felt recoil and larger flashes. The P365 would be a good choice as would a Beretta 85 Cheetah.

 

[700 LTR 223]

That energy figure is from a rifle test barrel. Energy of the CCI Stinger from the LCP is about 90 ft. lbs.

Yep , not nearly as impressive in a short barrel.

If I can handle 22LR stingers in the LCP II (despite not liking the muzzle flash), would I be able to handle 380 in the LCP II, or LCP max next?

Shooting a 22lr LCP II well is no guarantee of shooting a 380 LCP II /MAX well. Shooting my LCP II 380 for the first time without the mag extension I could not keep the pistol positioned in the hand after a few shots , not much to grab onto and 380 does recoil noticeably more than my 22lr LCP II. After installing the mag extension and keeping a very firm grip I could shoot the LCP II 380 pretty well.

Since buying the LCP MAX I've not even fired the LCP II 380. A much better grip and MUCH better sights. But I bet the P365 in 380 would be a milder gun to shoot as they are pretty easy to shoot even in 9mm.

 

[nonobaddog]

In general, using the same ammo, a shorter barrel is going to cause more muzzle flash and noise level than a longer barrel. In a short barrel the powder could still be burning and creating pressure. These are just facts. A half inch may or may not make enough difference to notice but a few inches definitely will.

Now switching to my opinion - a 380 is going to make more muzzle flash and noise level than any 22 LR. For one thing the end of the barrel is where most of the noise comes out and the 380 has a bigger noise hole. The bore on the 22LR is a minimum 0.0382 square inches while the bore on the 380 is a minimum 0.0977 square inches.

 

[Ziggidy]

IMO, there is a noticeable difference in recoil in the 22 vs 380 (LCP Models). Before "upgrading', I'd rent the LCP 380 and see how it is.

 

[cosermann]

Light, small pocket pistols with tiny grips (like the Kel-Tec P3AT, and Ruger LCP) tend to be a bit of a handful in .380 ACP if you're sensitive to that sort of thing.

However, stepping up a notch in size to something like the Glock 42, a Kahr in 380 (CT or CW), or the new SIG P365 in 380 (mentioned above), makes a huge difference. The 42 is downright pleasant to shoot (as the Kahr and SIG are also reported to be).

[Edit - forgot to mention the Walther PK380. Maybe a bit larger than you're looking for, but it may have the least recoil of those mentioned so far as a result. At 19.4 oz, it's fairly heavy for a 380. Also, the S&W M&P Shield EZ 380 is one of the larger 380s.]

In addition to the recoil reduction of stepping up a bit in physical size of the pistol, you get the benefits of better ergonomics and better sights.

YMMV.

 

[doddg]

So glad you went the route of trying the .22LR to overcome a bad experience.
Great advice here from very experienced members who have helped me in the past with suggestions.
As already stated, anything you can do to add grip and/or barrel length & weight to whatever caliber you end up using would be helpful.

 

[Bugzilla]

Well be shooting tomorrow. I’ll shoot my wife’s 22 LCP and my LCP Max and report back.

 

[jason867]

Kudos to you for persevering and overcoming a bad first experience!

Larger 380acp pistols, such as the Sig P365 380 and Walther PK380, are much easier to shoot than the tiny 380s such as the Ruger LCP and Keltec P3AT. Partly due to their larger grips and heavier weight, and also partly due to their locked-breech actions (the tiny guns are blow-back operated).

(PS, i know for sure the PK380 is locked-breech, but I'm only assuming the sig p365 380 is too).

 

[nonobaddog]

Kudos to you for persevering and overcoming a bad first experience!

Larger 380acp pistols, such as the Sig P365 380 and Walther PK380, are much easier to shoot than the tiny 380s such as the Ruger LCP and Keltec P3AT. Partly due to their larger grips and heavier weight, and also partly due to their locked-breech actions (the tiny guns are blow-back operated).

(PS, i know for sure the PK380 is locked-breech, but I'm only assuming the sig p365 380 is too).

Yes - both the P365 and P365-380 are locked-breech.

 

[Jenn]

Well be shooting tomorrow. I’ll shoot my wife’s 22 LCP and my LCP Max and report back.

Thank you! I appreciate it

 

[OkieGirl]

Let me say that you made a HUGE step forward in getting to the range and working through the fear! Keep building familiarity with your EDC and as the muscle memory builds, the fear will fade. You've already done the hardest steps!

You sound like someone who pays attention to the details and small adjustments make or break the experience - so I'd highly suggest adjusting your choice of ammo as you tweak your preferences. The amount and the type of powder really does make a difference in things like flash and a jumpy muzzle. There have been some great comments above.

My best advice - begin with the end in mind. What are YOU most comfortable carrying and what do YOU shoot best? Ultimately, your safety is what's important and if you aren't comfortable you won't carry it. You will save yourself a bundle of $$$ if you rent and shoot before you buy. I purchased a Ruger LCP .380 because I was certain it was the carry choice for me...then I shot it and it scared me. I put it in the safe and wouldn't touch it. I'm glad to hear you have a good carry option and you are comfortable with it!!! Congratulations on climbing that mountain!!!

 

[DadSmith]

If you want something with light recoil but good penetration I suggest a 38 special with match 148gr wadcutter ammunition.

Buy Federal Gold Medal 38 Special Ammo 148 Grain Match Wadcutter Online - Federal Shots

Buy Federal Gold Medal 38 Special Ammo 148 Grain Match Wadcutter Online and have your ammo shipped right to your doorstep in just the shortest time possible.

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This is a fraudulent site beware!
This ammunition feels about like a 22lr in recoil but a lot more powerful and has much better performance.

 

[Jenn]

Thank you everyone for your responses!

I’ve further acclimated myself and shot 300 rounds in total and 250 out of the Lcp 22LR today.

I almost was to the point during the middle of my range time that I wanted to try my px4 storm compact in 9mm but kept shooting the Lcp. The range noises stopped bothering me and the flash isn’t bugging me as much.
A few stovepipes with the Remington thunderbolt ammo… a few failures to feed with some of the hollow points at the end of my range time. It has not been cleaned so I think that might be part of it.. it worked flawlessly the first 100 rounds. It’s still being “broke in.”

Since the Lcp II is so small and I was getting sweaty palms.. I was starting to lose better control of it around 150 rounds. It’s comfortable to go through 90 rounds or so but I still have trouble keeping a a good grip on it. It became uncomfortable to shoot. I would have liked extra grip length and width for longer range sessions.


For my next range visit:
I will be renting the sig p365 in 380 and go from there. If I can comfortably shoot this one, I may venture into trying the 9mm in XL…. Or an actual heavy full size 9mm to get a feel.
If I use my px4 storm compact, I use my own low recoil ammo. I think I have some that are meant to be used with suppressors.

 

[nonobaddog]

If I use my px4 storm compact, I use my own low recoil ammo. I think I have some that are meant to be used with suppressors.

Very good!
Like OkieGirl said, ammo makes a big difference.

A few companies make ammo designed for short barrels. It uses faster burning powder so it probably has a little snappier recoil but less muzzle flash. The purpose is to not lose so much velocity like standard ammo does in a short barrel.

 

[Jenn]

Now switching to my opinion - a 380 is going to make more muzzle flash and noise level than any 22 LR. For one thing the end of the barrel is where most of the noise comes out and the 380 has a bigger noise hole. The bore on the 22LR is a minimum 0.0382 square inches while the bore on the 380 is a minimum 0.0977 square inches.

Will a 380 generally be nearly as loud as a compact or subcompact 9mm?
I flinched and jumped when a Sig P938 was being used in the same lane. (Range partner I was with owns it.)
I’m not sure if I would be jumpy or as much even, since I’m more comfortable with being at the range now

 

[Jenn]

Very good!
Like OkieGirl said, ammo makes a big difference.

A few companies make ammo designed for short barrels. It uses faster burning powder so it probably has a little snappier recoil but less muzzle flash. The purpose is to not lose so much velocity like standard ammo does in a short barrel.

Would the Sig 365 ammo be a good option to try? I saw it in the store and considered picking up a box of the FMJ version to see if I like it.. if I didn’t I was going to hand it over to my range partner with a P938.

 

[Jenn]

If you want something with light recoil but good penetration I suggest a 38 special with match 148gr wadcutter ammunition.

Buy Federal Gold Medal 38 Special Ammo 148 Grain Match Wadcutter Online - Federal Shots

Buy Federal Gold Medal 38 Special Ammo 148 Grain Match Wadcutter Online and have your ammo shipped right to your doorstep in just the shortest time possible.

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This ammunition feels about like a 22lr in recoil but a lot more powerful and has much better performance.

If my range has a 38 to try out, I may try this! Of course I think I’d have to use the ammo they provide though..

 

[nonobaddog]

Will a 380 generally be nearly as loud as a compact or subcompact 9mm?
I flinched and jumped when a Sig P938 was being used in the same lane. (Range partner I was with owns it.)
I’m not sure if I would be jumpy or as much even, since I’m more comfortable with being at the range now

My only 380 is a S&W Bodyguard380 (very small) and it is loud with a pretty sharp bark. I'd say in the same ball park as a compact to mid sized 9mm.

For the same barrel length the 9mm would be louder. Ammo differences can muddy the water on comparisons.