.22LR Rifle Range Fun

[Zephri]

So I went shooting last Friday and has less failures to extract with my Savage after modifying the extractor but it would still have the failures after 10 or so rounds. I also started to have some failures to extract with my Ruger precision rimfire. I've found the issue which I had a suspicion was the cause, lots and lots of wax. CCI coats their SV ammo with far too much, enough that you could almost use them as candles. So I guess it's time to buy a variety of match ammo from various brands and see what they like and relegate the CCI to my dedicated .22 ar as blasting ammo.

Wax in chambers, you can scrape the walls with a plastic pick and see the wax move around.
Savage:

Ruger

Wax on bullet, you can feel it as it's quite heavy and you can also see it chipped off slightly on the tip.

 

[doddg]

A really nice set of consistently tight groups !

At 25 yds. it's a no-brainer, 100 yds humbling & 50 yds continues to keep me from being happy.
Shooting 25 yds is a consolation prize!

the hydro dip has made it way more accurate

View attachment 93800

You are too funny!

 

[T-DOGG]

So I went shooting last Friday and has less failures to extract with my Savage after modifying the extractor but it would still have the failures after 10 or so rounds. I also started to have some failures to extract with my Ruger precision rimfire. I've found the issue which I had a suspicion was the cause, lots and lots of wax. CCI coats their SV ammo with far too much, enough that you could almost use them as candles. So I guess it's time to buy a variety of match ammo from various brands and see what they like and relegate the CCI to my dedicated .22 ar as blasting ammo.

Last winter I had issues with the wax causing the rounds to not slide up the magazine in my SW22 Victory. So I started taking the ammo out of the box, placing the box on top of the rounds, then drag them in all directions across a microfiber rag to remove as much of the wax as possible. It resolved my issue. Might be worth a try to see if it helps your issue as well.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

At 25 yds. it's a no-brainer, 100 yds humbling & 50 yds continues to keep me from being happy.
Shooting 25 yds is a consolation prize!

I've seen the targets you post. Your groups have consistently gotten tighter and they are also consistent from yardage to yardage.

What are you expecting a ragged hole at all yardages?

That's going to take some more time and practice. Especially practice in taking every shot exactly the same way every time ... same hold, same breathing pattern, same trigger squeeze, etc. and so forth.

Out to 50 yds. the wind shouldn't be a factor so ragged holes can fairly easily be achieved ... you've done this a time or two already and not just at 25 yds. At 100 yds. this becomes more of a challenge, but still not impossible.

However, I don't think you're looking at your current groups correctly. If you're shooting a ragged hole at 25 yds. and it measures 1/4"x1/4", that's a 1 MOA group. Translating this to 50 yds. the group will measure 1/2"x1/2", and at 100 yds. it will be 1"x1". This is what I see your groups doing in the targets you post.

You want a ragged hole at 100 yds.? You need to shoot sub MOA ... even at 25 yds.

Personally, I don't see any reason for you to be unhappy with your current level of shooting. Concentrate on taking every shot exactly the same way and I believe you will reach another level ... maybe consistent ragged holes at 50 yds. Then you will be saying that is a no-brainer and move on to making 100 yds. a no-brainer.

Also, shooting 25 yds. isn't a consolation prize. It's a warm-up distance and a super convenient distance to work at to keep the walking from firing line to target line to a minimum. It also makes the MOA math super simple. What you do at 25 yds. you should be able to do at 100 yds.

 

[zachcz]

very good points. Doddg and I have had this conversation multiple times. Most if not all of his rifles and the ones of mine he’s shot a bunch are way more accurate than we as humans will ever be. Being able to duplicate the human process and Interaction with the machine is what is going to show the improvement. We’ve also discussed how some rifles or guns just work better for different people. On paper his Cz bolt action should outperform the savage (bolt action that he shoots best according to targets). The fun is half the cost of the cz and has a 28 dollar scope on it. It’s not that fun is any better or worse it’s more the interaction has been able to be replicated consistently over and over.

I've seen the targets you post. Your groups have consistently gotten tighter and they are also consistent from yardage to yardage.

What are you expecting a ragged hole at all yardages?

That's going to take some more time and practice. Especially practice in taking every shot exactly the same way every time ... same hold, same breathing pattern, same trigger squeeze, etc. and so forth.

Out to 50 yds. the wind shouldn't be a factor so ragged holes can fairly easily be achieved ... you've done this a time or two already and not just at 25 yds. At 100 yds. this becomes more of a challenge, but still not impossible.

However, I don't think you're looking at your current groups correctly. If you're shooting a ragged hole at 25 yds. and it measures 1/4"x1/4", that's a 1 MOA group. Translating this to 50 yds. the group will measure 1/2"x1/2", and at 100 yds. it will be 1"x1". This is what I see your groups doing in the targets you post.

You want a ragged hole at 100 yds.? You need to shoot sub MOA ... even at 25 yds.

Personally, I don't see any reason for you to be unhappy with your current level of shooting. Concentrate on taking every shot exactly the same way and I believe you will reach another level ... maybe consistent ragged holes at 50 yds. Then you will be saying that is a no-brainer and move on to making 100 yds. a no-brainer.

Also, shooting 25 yds. isn't a consolation prize. It's a warm-up distance and a super convenient distance to work at to keep the walking from firing line to target line to a minimum. It also makes the MOA math super simple. What you do at 25 yds. you should be able to do at 100 yds.

 

[bwframe]

So I went shooting last Friday and has less failures to extract with my Savage after modifying the extractor...

I seemingly solved the extraction issues on my two MKII FVSR's by smoothing the stamping burrs on the extractors edges and keeping the whole bolt/extractor/spring assembly well lubed. Along with keeping the two barrel cuts on either side of the chamber clean and lubed also, (pipe cleaner in barrel holes.)

It doesn't take much powder residue and bullet lube to gook up these sensitive areas, especially if mass production stamping burrs close the tolerances. I got in the habit of checking these areas for appropriate lube and or cleaning every few hundred rounds.

In my case anyway, the Savages did not have any issues with dirty chambers causing extraction issues that is often the first culprit that everyone points to.

 

[doddg]

very good points. Doddg and I have had this conversation multiple times.
Most if not all of his rifles and the ones of mine he’s shot a bunch are way more accurate than we as humans will ever be.
Being able to duplicate the human process and Interaction with the machine is what is going to show the improvement.
We’ve also discussed how some rifles or guns just work better for different people.
On paper his Cz bolt action should outperform the savage (bolt action that he shoots best according to targets).
The fun is half the cost of the cz and has a 28 dollar scope on it.
It’s not that fun is any better or worse it’s more the interaction has been able to be replicated consistently over and over.

Yes, it really bugs me when I have a $200 cantilever ring & scope outfit that fits me on a rifle like the CZ 457 Trainer (that cost me more for the rifle also), & I end up shooting that blasted Savage 16 bull barrel of yours that I shoot better with regular rings & bargain basement scope!
You will get the last laugh however, if it is the last rifle standing, at least with bolt actions, since nothing comes close with the CZ 512 semi-auto in my amateur hands.

 

[doddg]

I've seen the targets you post. Your groups have consistently gotten tighter and they are also consistent from yardage to yardage.
What are you expecting a ragged hole at all yardages?
That's going to take some more time and practice. Especially practice in taking every shot exactly the same way every time ... same hold, same breathing pattern, same trigger squeeze, etc. and so forth.

25 yds = ragged holes
50 yds = 1" groups consistently
100 yds = 2" groups consistently

Out to 50 yds. the wind shouldn't be a factor so ragged holes can fairly easily be achieved ... you've done this a time or two already and not just at 25 yds. At 100 yds. this becomes more of a challenge, but still not impossible.

I'm still blaming the wind when I can get 4 or 5 rds. (shooting 5 rds.) on a 2" target at 50 yds. then on the next 2" can't get any on the 2" target.
I have alot of movement after manipulating the bolt-action, just like I did using a Henry lever-action.
It seems every rifle needs a different height of rest, especially the back rest & I use boards to elevate it to a height I can use.

However, I don't think you're looking at your current groups correctly. If you're shooting a ragged hole at 25 yds. and it measures 1/4"x1/4", that's a 1 MOA group. Translating this to 50 yds. the group will measure 1/2"x1/2", and at 100 yds. it will be 1"x1". This is what I see your groups doing in the targets you post.
You want a ragged hole at 100 yds.? You need to shoot sub MOA ... even at 25 yds.

I know not being able to apply what is happening at 25 yds to 50 yds is all me: the X factor.

Personally, I don't see any reason for you to be unhappy with your current level of shooting. Concentrate on taking every shot exactly the same way and I believe you will reach another level ... maybe consistent ragged holes at 50 yds. Then you will be saying that is a no-brainer and move on to making 100 yds. a no-brainer.

Appreciate the encouragement!

Also, shooting 25 yds. isn't a consolation prize. It's a warm-up distance and a super convenient distance to work at to keep the walking from firing line to target line to a minimum. It also makes the MOA math super simple. What you do at 25 yds. you should be able to do at 100 yds.

I wish, it certainly hasn't been my experience!

 

[TJ Kackowski]

doddg ... What you just wrote proves that you are a consistent shooter and are applying what you know at all ranges. Measure those 25 yd. ragged holes ... dollars to donuts they're more often than not 1/2" groups. This makes you a consistent 2 MOA shooter.

Again, a great starting point.

To reach the next level(s), you will need to improve on a few items of your kit ... not the rifle or the scope ... the bench.

And you need to be absolutely certain that you are taking every shot exactly the same way.

For the bench, you may need to invest in a larger rear rest or several different weighted bags or even an adjustable rear rest to get the height you need. Balancing your rear rest on hard surfaces that don't lock together will cause inconsistencies.

Taking the shot is a process that you go through each and every time you squeeze the trigger. Starting with the sight alignment and sight picture.

Then making certain you are taking your shot at the same point in your breathing cycle. We teach taking the shot at the bottom of the breathing cycle (normal exhale) in the RR program.

Be sure that you are squeezing the trigger and not jerking or slapping the trigger. Some people actually pinch the trigger using their trigger finger on the trigger and their thumb behind the trigger guard.

Finally, following through with your shot. This means you keep squeezing the trigger until it stops, i.e. trapping the trigger, then waiting a moment. If you let your finger jump off the trigger, you can negatively influence where your shot will go as it takes time for all the mechanical and chemical processes to occur in the firing sequence which ends with the bullet clearing the muzzle.

I know you are a detailed oriented man. Getting to the next level(s) is all about paying very close attention to the details and documenting what you are doing.

 

[doddg]

doddg ... What you just wrote proves that you are a consistent shooter and are applying what you know at all ranges. Measure those 25 yd. ragged holes ... dollars to donuts they're more often than not 1/2" groups. This makes you a consistent 2 MOA shooter.

Again, a great starting point.

To reach the next level(s), you will need to improve on a few items of your kit ... not the rifle or the scope ... the bench.

Never thought of that.
I'm just using the stool they have at the indoor range & have even started taking a little 2 step ladder since all the stools finally broke.
At the outdoor range, I'm just using a generic folding chair that they supply.

And you need to be absolutely certain that you are taking every shot exactly the same way.

That's is definitely not happening now b/c of having to adjust the rear stock rest after every shot.

For the bench, you may need to invest in a larger rear rest or several different weighted bags or even an adjustable rear rest to get the height you need. Balancing your rear rest on hard surfaces that don't lock together will cause inconsistencies.

That explains alot. I've not thought that the rear rest was going to be adequate.
I usually have to use 2 separate bags on top of each other and or on top of a board for elevation.
I have a real amateur operations going on.

Taking the shot is a process that you go through each and every time you squeeze the trigger. Starting with the sight alignment and sight picture.

I've been primarily concentrating on the trigger squeeze.

Then making certain you are taking your shot at the same point in your breathing cycle. We teach taking the shot at the bottom of the breathing cycle (normal exhale) in the RR program.

I have learned to take the shot at the end of a breath instead of the beginning of it.
Someone pointed that out awhile back.

Be sure that you are squeezing the trigger and not jerking or slapping the trigger. Some people actually pinch the trigger using their trigger finger on the trigger and their thumb behind the trigger guard.

Finally, following through with your shot. This means you keep squeezing the trigger until it stops, i.e. trapping the trigger, then waiting a moment. If you let your finger jump off the trigger, you can negatively influence where your shot will go as it takes time for all the mechanical and chemical processes to occur in the firing sequence which ends with the bullet clearing the muzzle.

Don't think I'm doing that; I'll have to watch myself nest time.

I know you are a detailed oriented man. Getting to the next level(s) is all about paying very close attention to the details and documenting what you are doing.

Sounds like a goal for a retired guy!

 

[sgthud]

Don't have pics yet, just got done with it and ready to go shoot.

Ruger 10/22 with BX Trigger and a Tactical Solutions X-Ring barrel in an Arch Angel stock, Nikon Rimfire scope and Ruger Silent-SR suppressor.

Now i just need mother nature to cooperate for a day.

 

[johntheplinker]

I just realized I haven't had the rimfires out since the end of September. Got busy on stuff around the homestead then out in the woods. At least now its cool and the bugs are gone!

 

[drillsgt]

I haven't been out in awhile either. I just picked up a LNIB unfired Marlin XT-22 walnut stocked 22 magnum, probably one of the last made with the nice stocks. My scope is ready for pick-up at Cabelas and then i'll be all set.

 

[T-DOGG]

I'm looking forward to some further testing with the 457 now that I have a better scope setup.

 

[gmcttr]

I'm looking forward to some further testing with the 457 now that I have a better scope setup...

I installed my Athlon Helos BTR 6-24x50 on my CZ 457 this afternoon and just finished sighting it in so the light was dimming and flat.

I didn't take the opportunity to have the Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 side by side with it but my first impression is that the Helos is a bit brighter. With only 30 rounds downrange so far, I like it.

 

[johntheplinker]

At long last I finally found a scope to replace the cheap but decent Hawke on my T1x. Its used but in this case I'm not worried at all. Looks new, not even any ring marks. Also I know the guy who owned this and he babys his guns. Looked up prices real quick like and cheapest I found was $600. I paid way, way, less than that.

Already planning to do a little shooting tomorrow.

 

[johntheplinker]

Got the Leupold mounted this morning and was able to get out a little this afternoon. 8 shots to get it zeroed. Put a few rounds on steel and am absolutely ecstatic. Nice to be able to see the bullet splatter on impact. Man, that scope is clear! Also had out the 10/22 that I had issues with a while back. I had wallowed out the back 3 screw holes in the rail to get more windage and stacked a bunch of shims under the rail for elevation. Almost nailed the windage, was only off a couple of inches at 25 yards, but elevation was way high. I guess my math was off and ended up taking out about half the shims. But it is zeroed now!

 

[doddg]

Spent 3.5 hours at outdoor range today.
I'd buy some shooting gloves but see issues with loading magazines with then on.
B/C of the 39*- 42* weather I don't think I'll do that again: finger tips got a little numb & loading mags burdensome.

I'm a fan of borrowing Zachcz's guns & taking them to the range, especially rifles.
I spent more time shooting his Savage Mark 2 FV-RS than he did & ended up just buying it.
The Savage Mark 2 had proved to be as accurate as my other 3 bolt actions (Zach says better), but I'm in denial and have to do another full round of range visits to be sure.
I need to sell some rifles, but I've learned not to be in a hurry, then regretting it later.

He really enjoyed it when his Taurus TX pistol shot better for me than my Glock 44 did, like the Savage had done to my rifles.
I already had taken it to Point Blank & dialed it in at 25 yards, but today tried it at 50 yards & 25 yds again.

The little white square targets are 1 7/8".
My regular rifle targets are a hair over 1" circles (I think), so hard to compare.
I'll do another range visit with the Rossi RS & Ruger 10/22 just using my regular rifle targets.

It will be fun seeing how they compete on the same page, and it could be a matter of just me, the usual X factor & on any given day it could go the other way.

5-10 rds in each

5-10 rds

50 yds

50 yds

50 yds

I think these are a hair over 1" circles.

 

[DadSmith]

Doddg you can get what I use for hunting and I work outside year round these work great for warming up your hands when needed.
https://www.amazon.com/HotHands-Hand-Warmers-Odorless-Activated/dp/B0007ZF4OA

 

[zachcz]

to be fair I didn’t just say the savage was better. I carefully examined the plethora of targets you’ve posted of all your rifles and it clearly has the best groups for you. If I was just going to say something was best you know it would be a CZ

Spent 3.5 hours at outdoor range today.
I'd buy some shooting gloves but see issues with loading magazines with then on.
B/C of the 39*- 42* weather I don't think I'll do that again: finger tips got a little numb & loading mags burdensome.

I'm a fan of borrowing Zachcz's guns & taking them to the range, especially rifles.
I spent more time shooting his Savage Mark 2 FV-RS than he did & ended up just buying it.
The Savage Mark 2 had proved to be as accurate as my other 3 bolt actions (Zach says better), but I'm in denial and have to do another full round of range visits to be sure.
I need to sell some rifles, but I've learned not to be in a hurry, then regretting it later.

He really enjoyed it when his Taurus TX pistol shot better for me than my Glock 44 did, like the Savage had done to my rifles.
I already had taken it to Point Blank & dialed it in at 25 yards, but today tried it at 50 yards & 25 yds again.

The little white square targets are 1 7/8".
My regular rifle targets are a hair over 1" circles (I think), so hard to compare.
I'll do another range visit with the Rossi RS & Ruger 10/22 just using my regular rifle targets.

It will be fun seeing how they compete on the same page, and it could be a matter of just me, the usual X factor & on any given day it could go the other way.

5-10 rds in each

5-10 rds

50 yds

50 yds

50 yds

I think these are a hair over 1" circles.