10.5" 5.56 AR optics. Feedback welcome...

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  • Ruger_Ronin

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    What is everyone running on their 10.5-11.5 AR's? Curious if I want to try an LPVO on a shorter barrel. I currently have a PA ACSS Raptor (w/ canted RMR) on a 16" and absolutely love it. Dare I try this on a shorty? What, IYO, would be some pros & cons to this?

    I have tested several optics combos from EO Techs/Romeos/RMR's, etc (with & w/o magnifiers), and the LPVO route is my favorite. My 10.5" Ruger currently has a Romeo5 with Burris 3x magnifier. The purpose of this rifle is mobility and urban SHTF, but I do like an "across the board" capable weapon. Is the capability of such a scope lost on a sub 12" barrel? Feedback welcome!
     

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    avboiler11

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    Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x on my 12.5” 5.56…I find it “close enough” to a true 1x to function as an eyes-open RDS.

    TRS-32 RDS on my 10.5” 5.56.
     
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    MCgrease08

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    I run the Sig Romeo 5 on my 11.5", no magnifier. It does everything I need it to do for an AR pistol that will likely never see use out past 200 yards.

    Red dots just make sense to me for the AR pistol config. Just pick the manufacturer you like.

    I am considering going the LPVO route for my favorite rifle, but so far haven't seen the need yet.

    IMG_20210929_122549__01~3.jpg
     

    Ruger_Ronin

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    I run the Sig Romeo 5 on my 11.5", no magnifier. It does everything I need it to do for an AR pistol that will likely never see use out past 200 yards.

    Red dots just make sense to me for the AR pistol config. Just pick the manufacturer you like.

    I am considering going the LPVO route for my favorite rifle, but so far haven't seen the need yet.

    View attachment 161082
    Point taken.
     

    JTL165

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    I run a vortex pst 1-6 with offset 507c on an 11.5. The 1-6 is helpful for info processing and shooting past 50.
    Yes i know you can shoot out to 200 effectively with your red dot, but 6x makes it easier and I get to know what im shooting at.
     

    chiraqi

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    I'm new to guns, so take my input with a grain of salt - my 10.5" has a Romeo 5 but I just have trouble working with it. I have bad eyes and a slight astigmatism though. And the gun has a military style front sight post. I find that myself and other shooters instinctively attempt to line up the dot with the front sight post unnecessarily which wastes time. And the post gets in the way of the sight picture.

    I'd use irons but irons on a short rifle just doesn't seem as fun. I'm thinking of just removing the front sight post but I haven't gotten that deep into doing my own AR modifications yet.

    My 18" AR has a Vortex 1-4x. I'm thinking of putting that on the 10.5" instead. The 18" is pretty fun with just irons, too. It's easier to line up the shot if your sight radius is longer.
     

    bwframe

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    I'm thinking QD mounts are your friends for LPVO scopes. Having simple options make a lot of difference. A couple of those sweet (inexpensive) Romeo 5's laying around makes a solution for a much lighter/quicker gun. Off with the LPVO, on with the RDS, verify zero with the BUIS for plenty good enough 50 yard and in self defense work. Change things around as needed, but going back to LPVO may require a range trip?

    I have 1-4 PST's on a 5.56 rifle and a 8.5" 300BLK pistol. Love the sight (especially the TMCQ reticle,) on both guns, but there is no getting away from the pistol being quite heavy for the short package it is.

    Love the 4X for range work and hunting, but for a dedicated self defense pistol AR, LPVO makes it heavy and consequently slow. The extra weight is still there on a 16" rifle, but is spread out over the additional length, not as apparent.

    Sling up your LPVO pistol and pack it around the house with you for a couple hours. Then do the same with the RDS pistol.
     

    Ruger_Ronin

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    Part of me wishes I'd have just left it alone. I'd have less headache and more $. I do enjoy finding these solutions though.

    This evening I thought the addition of the folder ruining my eye relief "could" be solved with a shorter stock/LOP. I have long arms and don't necessarily care for the hunched up posture.
     

    Ruger_Ronin

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    I'm thinking QD mounts are your friends for LPVO scopes. Having simple options make a lot of difference. A couple of those sweet (inexpensive) Romeo 5's laying around makes a solution for a much lighter/quicker gun. Off with the LPVO, on with the RDS, verify zero with the BUIS for plenty good enough 50 yard and in self defense work. Change things around as needed, but going back to LPVO may require a range trip?

    I have 1-4 PST's on a 5.56 rifle and a 8.5" 300BLK pistol. Love the sight on both guns, but there is no getting away from the pistol being quite heavy for the short package it is.

    Love the 4X for range work and hunting, but for a dedicated self defense pistol AR, LPVO makes it heavy and consequently slow. The extra weight is still there on a 16" rifle, but is spread out over the additional length, not as apparent.

    Sling up your LPVO pistol and pack it around the house with you for a couple hours. Then do the same with the RDS pistol.
    Excellent points. I am not a QD fast swap guy. I change my mind more than Sybil Dorsett as far as configuration, but not on the fly. I setup and grab the given rifle for the scenario. The re-zeroing constantly is a deal breaker.
     

    MindfulMan

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    I like prism red dots. Having this fixed 3X magnification Vortex Spitfire on my .308 Saint Victor pistol has worked out well (for me, that translates to "a lot of fun").
    i-PkMTX7w-L.jpg
     

    mcapo

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    As my eyes have aged, I have become a LVPO fan.

    Favorite is a Trijicon Accupoint 1-6.

    My budget leans towards the Trijicon Accupower line and I have a couple 1-4s.

    Another option for a very compact and lightweight setup is the Leupold 1-4. Especially the discontinued AR MOD 1 Firedot line. I have three variations of this scope on ARs and one on a 35 rem lever gun which is hopefully going to the woods for deer this season. ;-)
     

    rosejm

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    Dunno if the thread is headed down a RDS vs. LPVO discussion, but that wasn't the intent I don't think. Rifle length vs. pistol length is a big part of this discussion.


    I did some similar soul searching after being slowed by irons on a smaller package.

    After looking at the ballistics from the shorter barrels, it became clear that 400y+ just wasn't going to be very effective regardless of the optic. The bullets are too far below their intended impact velocities. So if I didn't need the longer range capabilities, was the money, weight & complication of LPVO useful?

    I don't think you're gaining anything with LPVO, unless it's a particular reticle that you really like. Then, does it still apply to the slower ballistics curves?
    Most of the time I see LPVO used at varying distances, the shooter is spending lots of time twisting that mag ring (even with the lever). And that's mostly on rifle platforms...

    Do you use your LVPO on 1-2x (even 3x), with the RMR? I'm always curious how different shooters are using those options together.


    RMR won the day for me, being no-fuss and quick to acquire. Has all the capability needed for the weapon's effective range.
    If you really want the magnification prism 3x/4x would be my second choice, in a both eyes open for <100y. Remains a small, lightweight package without complications.
     

    Ruger_Ronin

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    Do you use your LVPO on 1-2x (even 3x), with the RMR? I'm always curious how different shooters are using those options together.

    Not really, unless I'm prone and/or engaging multiple targets at varying distances with some haste. It stays on 4x at rest.

    Part of my rationale is the ability to clearly see my intended target and less about its ballistic advantages/disadvantages. 0-200; rds all day. A 10.5" may not be the best option, but could certainly be used at 200+. My ability to hit accurately past that is limited by my ability to place accurate rounds. The dot of an rds covers much of the target at that range, and the ability to magnify and put good hits on is my goal.

    As of now I'm 50/50; LPVO or RDS only. Still weighing the data. More input!
     

    Gingerbeardman

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    So I did something a little different with my 10.5 that most people will think silly, but that's been the case most of my life. I took all my top quality parts and put them in that pistol and then mounted a redfield 4-12x. I like to see what I'm shooting at. Does it look ridiculous and heavy? Yeah. Can I hit anything from 50-200? yeah. If I can only grab one, that's it. It sounds like people are leaving their lpvo's on 4x, and that's where mine starts. I'm not concerned with weight.
     

    bwframe

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    ...It sounds like people are leaving their lpvo's on 4x...

    Not me. As much as magnification is helpful for the long shot, it's prohibitive for the close one.

    I run throw levers on mine. 1x is positioned with the lever straight up, which is the magnification the scope stays on unless needed for the long shot. Straight up throw lever = simple quick reference that you see instantly and know that you are ready for any shot.
     

    T-DOGG

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    Went through this same thought process recently with my MK18 SBR. In my mind, the point of a shorter barreled AR is to remove weight and increase maneuverability over a rifle/carbine. I like the size & weight of the Romeo5, but would prefer an Aimpoint T2/H2 for this rifle. The Accupoint 1-4/Bobro combo is just a bit too much weight for me and I like that setup better on my 16" rifle. I've currently decided to stick with the Aimpoint Pro for now. I think it's a balance of size, quality, price point and weight between the other options. I'd have no problem engaging man size targets to 200 yards with it.

    6.4oz - Romeo5 in ADM QD mount
    12.9oz - Aimpoint Pro in factory mount
    22.5oz - Accupoint 1-4 in Bobro QD mount


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    Ruger_Ronin

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    Back to original configuration. I decided to stop racking my brain and emptying my wallet. It will stay as is. I'll just build another sub 16" (12.5"ish?) around the idea of LPVO some day. Aero will get some $ that day.

    I will leave the PA mount under the R5. I like the new height bringing my head into a more comfortable position. For comparison sake pictured is the PA 1.65" on the left vs the factory "high" mount on the right at 1.41" They look and feel as if they were made in the same facility.
    c7f1ccd0ccca267952a65e2f4a96174b.jpg
     
    Last edited:

    Ggreen

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    Keep it simple.

    Prism fixed powers have small form factor but limited eyebox, limited off axis shooting use, generally anything over 1.5x i require an offset dot for home defense. The 1.5x acog is pretty legit.

    Red dot is best all around option under 12.5. Lightweight, easy to use in different positions, nvg compatible, lots of quality mounting options. You get what you pay for in quality.

    Irons, it's not 1999. Back up irons are low priority items. Polymer buis are not great or reliable. You get what you pay for. And if you get into nvg buis generally cost to much on the rail estate market. A quality red dot or lpvo does everything an iron does with equal reliability.

    Lpvo good option, but can get too big on a compact utility gun (not talking run and gun games), diminished eye box past 6x makes pistol use kind of limited. A 1-4 will have a generous eye box and will easily carry you to 400 meters which is a solid number for most things under 12.5.


    For me my guns under 13.7" get red dots, flash lights, and ir lasers. Like I mentioned I wouldn't hate a 1.5x acog or a quality 1-4. 1-6 start getting too big for my uses of a smaller gun.
     

    Ruger_Ronin

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    Keep it simple.

    Prism fixed powers have small form factor but limited eyebox, limited off axis shooting use, generally anything over 1.5x i require an offset dot for home defense. The 1.5x acog is pretty legit.

    Red dot is best all around option under 12.5. Lightweight, easy to use in different positions, nvg compatible, lots of quality mounting options. You get what you pay for in quality.

    Irons, it's not 1999. Back up irons are low priority items. Polymer buis are not great or reliable. You get what you pay for. And if you get into nvg buis generally cost to much on the rail estate market. A quality red dot or lpvo does everything an iron does with equal reliability.

    Lpvo good option, but can get too big on a compact utility gun (not talking run and gun games), diminished eye box past 6x makes pistol use kind of limited. A 1-4 will have a generous eye box and will easily carry you to 400 meters which is a solid number for most things under 12.5.


    For me my guns under 13.7" get red dots, flash lights, and ir lasers. Like I mentioned I wouldn't hate a 1.5x acog or a quality 1-4. 1-6 start getting too big for my uses of a smaller gun.
    I was dreaming of a 12.5" w/ 1-4x24. I'll call it Tween'er.
     

    pokersamurai

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    The purpose of this rifle is mobility and urban SHTF, but I do like an "across the board" capable weapon.
    IMO those are two different missions with two different rifle setups. A true urban SHTF situation is most likely going to look like a Hurricane Katrina or BLM riot. All potential threats are most likely going to be within talking distance. In that scenario I prefer a red dot (Aimpoint T2 for me) because it is light, fast, and the most forgiving.

    However for a do-all rifle I prefer something with a little longer barrel (my preference is 12.5) and some magnification. In that situation a LPVO with offset RMR makes more sense.
     
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