Overdose Deaths Reached Record High

JeepHammer said:

Well, anything is possible...

'Gateway Drugs',
I know pot heads that have never done hard drugs,
I don't know of a single hard drug junkie that didn't start with alcohol.

Im sure there are exceptions, but research shows the earlier you start drinking the more likely you are to progress to drugs, and then harder drugs.
Some people stop at drinking, some move to pot and like it better, and don't go any farther,
But the really hard drug users all seem to say they started drinking around 12-13 and progressed to harder stuff...

I can't tell you personally, never had those monkeys on my back, I had enough issues with gun, race car, etc addictions, no money for drugs...

With the current mindset it's difficult to remind people WHY most drug laws were started...
Some were fear mongering 'Jim Crow' laws, I'll grant that upfront.

Most were simply because pretty much everyone recognized the addictions & dangers of these drugs.

I went to school in the 60s-70s,
I CLEARLY remember the teachers & government propaganda saying that COCAINE WAS NOT ADDICTIVE...

I guess we know better now?

But then again, cigarettes were supposed to be good for you, shilled by doctors, actually prescribed for weight control, nausea, for pregnant women, stomach conditions, etc.

I guess we know better now?

Since the opioid crisis, and the HUGE cutbacks in prescriptions, those users have turned to heroin & fentanyl in increasing numbers...

What I can tell you from first hand experience with people in my family,
Even if you get a meth junky off the stuff,
They never really come back.
It changes them fundamentally, at the core.
If they do get clean, they are more like a hollow shell of the person you knew.

Click to expand...

Well said and true as to most Meth
users. That is hardcore poison and a tribute to the human body to survive it but even that survival leaves only a shell. This has been my experience with the very few that want to come back to the light as well.

The biggest issue these come back attempts face is dealing with the every day stresses we have. Yes it is an every day ordeal to get by in this life. An addict lives In A world we can not understand and most believe they can stop and life will be rainbows and kittens. This is the mindset of my son. As he progresses back to normalcy’s reality’s he struggles. He has admitted that most everything we told him
Along his destructive path has been solid truth that he “chose” to ignore.

Because of my family, I know addictive personalities run in the family.
Don't know if it's genetic, or it's environmental, but we have a few...

Knowing that, I tried to keep my recreational activities on the legal side.
I could barely afford food & car parts, no money for excessive drinking or drugs.

I like to make alcohol (chemistry & gadgets), but other than tasting once in a while I haven't had a drink in 5 or more years.

When I hit the VA, they pumped me FULL of pain killers in excessive doses,
All kinds of psychotropics,
Endless supplies.

I ALMOST fell for it...
I was well on my way.

Pills were cheaper than doing anything about the actual problems causing the pain.
I wasn't hurting/depressed because my body had some shortage of pain killers or anti- depressants.

You are easier to control when you are a junky,
And if you complain, they say "Why are you listening to this guy, he's a junky".
If you don't take the meds they prescribe, they say "Why are you listening to this guy, he's off his meds".

Ask any former military junky where they got hooked, 99/100 will tell you the VA...

churchmouse said:

Well said and true as to most Methodist users. That is hardcore poison and a tribute to the human body to survive it but even that survival leaves only a shell. This has been my experience with the very few that want to come back to the light as well.

The biggest issue these come back attempts face is dealing with the every day stresses we have. Yes it is an every day ordeal to get by in this life. An addict lives In A world we can not understand a d most believe they can stop too and life will be rainbows and kittens. This is the mindset of my son. As he progresses back to normalcy’s reality’s he struggles. He has admitted that most everything we told him
Along his destopath has been solid truth that he “chose” to ignore.

Click to expand...

You might want to change Methodist to Meth,
You know how the hard core religion folks get around here, don't want any complaints or death threats!

Can't tell you for sure what's in it, but when they start with battery acid, drain cleaner, starting fluid, industrial floor cleaner, farm ammonia you can pretty well bet it's not going to be good...

Sounds more like ingredients for a bomb or chemical warfare than a 'Recrational' drug.

JeepHammer said:

You might want to change Methodist to Meth,
You know how the hard core religion folks get around here, don't want any complaints or death threats!

Click to expand...

Yeah I just edited that post. Long winded posting on my phone and spell check. I hate spell check. I also have thumbs these electronic key pads were not designed for.

JeepHammer said:

Because of my family, I know addictive personalities run in the family.
Don't know if it's genetic, or it's environmental, but we have a few...

Knowing that, I tried to keep my recreational activities on the legal side.
I could barely afford food & car parts, no money for excessive drinking or drugs.

I like to make alcohol (chemistry & gadgets), but other than tasting once in a while I haven't had a drink in 5 or more years.

When I hit the VA, they pumped me FULL of pain killers in excessive doses,
All kinds of psychotropics,
Endless supplies.

I ALMOST fell for it...
I was well on my way.

Pills were cheaper than doing anything about the actual problems causing the pain.
I wasn't hurting/depressed because my body had some shortage of pain killers or anti- depressants.

You are easier to control when you are a junky,
And if you complain, they say "Why are you listening to this guy, he's a junky".
If you don't take the meds they prescribe, they say "Why are you listening to this guy, he's off his meds".

Ask any former military junky where they got hooked, 99/100 will tell you the VA...

Click to expand...

I truly believe this is. Genetic issue. My brother drank and drugged himself to death. Literally.
My oldest son in this marriage has the same desire but he is making a solid attempt to seek normalcy. He struggles and I see my brother in him.

churchmouse said:

I truly believe this is. Genetic issue. My brother drank and drugged himself to death. Literally.
My oldest son in this marriage has the same desire but he is making a solid attempt to seek normalcy. He struggles and I see my brother in him.

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I have two cousins that are complete wastes of human life, barely functional shells.

One wasn't going to win any Nobel Prizes from the start, but pretty 'Normal',
The other was straight A, top of her class until she got into drinking, then party drugs, then meth...

Now neither one of them can hold a thought for 10 seconds, can't put a sentence together, both always claiming they are 'Clean' when it's obvious they are high when telling you that...

Both have a laundry list of serious medical conditions you would never see in any one person, and never in anyone their age...

I know several functioning, and some not so functioning alcoholics too.
Seems to go with the area...
Slower way to poison yourself to death, but poison none the less.

JeepHammer said:

I have two cousins that are complete wastes of human life, barely functional shells.

One wasn't going to win any Nobel Prizes from the start, but pretty 'Normal',
The other was straight A, top of her class until she got into drinking, then party drugs, then meth...

Now neither one of them can hold a thought for 10 seconds, can't put a sentence together, both always claiming they are 'Clean' when it's obvious they are high when telling you that...

Both have a laundry list of serious medical conditions you would never see in any one person, and never in anyone their age...

I know several functioning, and some not so functioning alcoholics too.
Seems to go with the area...
Slower way to poison yourself to death, but poison none the less.

Click to expand...

And this is mostly choice.
Yes there seems to be a propensity in some to follow this rabbit hole to it’s all to obvious dead end.
Personally I was a part use experimenter that all that went with a lifestyle. Brother and I had a few rock bands late 60’s early 70’s that induced that behavior and brother some of it was fun beyond decay. But always back to reality as far to many interests in the real world.
I hit the brakes very hard when I woke up in a strange place with a very attractive female I had no idea as to who she was and the guys in the band were gone back to Indy.
I was in Bedford ind. after our gig at a college club in Bloomington I was apparently led south with a couple of lady’s and separated from the band. No cell phones and they were as blasted as I was so they went home when the club closed and I was MIA. Was not the 1st time but it was the last.
That next day sucked getting home. Sucked.
Total reality check for the mouse. My choices and a too changes up after I realized what I was doing was lowing me down.

Far to many fail to see the stop signs.

churchmouse said:

I have to agree yet I am still looking at the people I grew up around that took this path to their own self induced life’s destruction and ultimately their own self induced deaths and there have been more than I care to remember. To the individual there seemed to be something missing in motivation and just caring about what where and when. That life and it’s reality was so full of suck that they installed there own reality with any means at hand. The green stuff was just a step along the way but it’s effects became minimal in their search for alternative.

Some call it a gateway drug. Well yes it’s usually the entry level to this life’s style but we have to know our personal limits. Many are looking for more and the green stuff is not the high they need for escape.
I grew up in tha age of Aquarius so experimenting was the norm but done on a Friday night after getting paid for a weeks work. There was far to much going on in the real world to be accomplished to let anything stop it.

So in my mind legalizing is not going to change anything yet may induce a weaker mind to follow the human Lemmings off that cliff. Maybe not.

I feel strangely like I am channeling Jeep Hammer.

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I understand, that weak minded people can fall into the life of only looking for that next high. And for some nothing is ever enough, green is good but horse might be better or meth or what ever.
But there are many many folks who can enjoy the disconnect but still manage to not be consumed by it.

JeepHammer said:

'Gateway Drugs',
I know pot heads that have never done hard drugs,
I don't know of a single hard drug junkie that didn't start with alcohol.

Im sure there are exceptions, but research shows the earlier you start drinking the more likely you are to progress to drugs, and then harder drugs.
Some people stop at drinking, some move to pot and like it better, and don't go any farther,
But the really hard drug users all seem to say they started drinking around 12-13 and progressed to harder stuff...

Click to expand...

In an online discussion a few years back I mentioned that most started with alcohol so wouldn't that be the real "gateway" drug. I was told well most people can get an older sibling/friend to go and buy it for them and marijuana was bought from a dealer and that got them into illicit drug use. I then asked wouldn't it then be better to legalize it so they could get it the same way as alcohol? The question was not well received.

churchmouse said:

Well said and true as to most Meth
users. That is hardcore poison and a tribute to the human body to survive it but even that survival leaves only a shell. This has been my experience with the very few that want to come back to the light as well.

Click to expand...

I wonder if part of that is due to the govt, back in the 60s and before I think they used red phosphorus and iodine. Now they use crap like JeepHammer said below because the govt started tracing the red phosphorus. No idea what they are using now that sudafed and ephedrine are tracked.

JeepHammer said:

Can't tell you for sure what's in it, but when they start with battery acid, drain cleaner, starting fluid, industrial floor cleaner, farm ammonia you can pretty well bet it's not going to be good...

Sounds more like ingredients for a bomb or chemical warfare than a 'Recrational' drug.

Click to expand...

The lithium from lithium batters, no idea what else. Or at least they did when you could buy sudafed and/or ephedrine off the shelf. No idea now.

actaeon277 said:

Who'd have thought that locking people in their homes, isolating them, adding to their stress of how to pay their bills and feed their families, would have adverse affects?

I mean really.
It's TOTALLY shocking.

And unpredictable.

Geez.

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This. Covid caused a lot of deaths and not because the virus was deadly.

I've lost people I love to overdose. Some, not all, were actually seemingly normal. Worked. Went to school plays. Sober when need be. But still, they OD'd. There seems to be a very large uncertainty what is in the consumed drugs nowadays. In '69 it was "don't eat the brown acid". Now one can consume from the same dealer, the same amount they used last week but this week they don't wake up. After I was done crying for my loss, I chocked it up to personal choice. It was their life to waste even if them wasting it hurt people they claimed to love. A real mix of anger and sadness it what I have for them.

manifest destiny said:

I I've lost people I love to overdose. Some, not all, were actually seemingly normal. Worked. Went to school plays. Sober when need be. But still, they OD'd. There seems to be a very large uncertainty what is in the consumed drugs nowadays. In '69 it was "don't eat the brown acid". Now one can consume from the same dealer, the same amount they used last week but this week they don't wake up. After I was done crying for my loss, I chocked it up to personal choice. It was their life to waste even if them wasting it hurt people they claimed to love. A real mix of anger and sadness it what I have for them.

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I sure don't understand lying to and killing your customers like that.

Everyone should watch this mini series. Quite the explanation of how and why we got to where we are in the current opioid crisis.

fullmetaljesus said:

I understand, that weak minded people can fall into the life of only looking for that next high. And for some nothing is ever enough, green is good but horse might be better or meth or what ever.
But there are many many folks who can enjoy the disconnect but still manage to not be consumed by it.

Click to expand...

There is a pretty good argument for genes and not 'Weak Minded' in a lot of cases.

And, the earlier you start, not knowing any better, the more likely you are to wind up addicted.

Addiction issues often run in families.

In some genetic lines, such as Native Americans, the specific gene has been identified for alcohol addiction.

And while the subject of 'Weak Minded' is on the table,

What about functioning alcoholics, get off work and swill alcohol every night, can't have any function in weekends without alcohol, etc.
These guys are often stuck in dead end jobs, the opportunity for advancement stopped about the time the alcohol started in nearly every case when it's researched.

Or the soccer mom's 'Little Helpers',
Daytime cocktails of anti-depressants, Xanax & booze?

Someone is prescribing those drugs, and someone is overlooking the drugs & booze because it has to show up somewhere...

Junkies come in all colors, dressed in all kinds of cloths & driving all kinds of vehicles...

An old saying is,
"Poor people have poor ways".

I've figured out over 60 years,
Miserable, angry, irritable people have their ways too, and it's usually connected to 'Issues' they aren't dealing with, drugs, booze, family, work, etc.

Timjoebillybob said:

In an online discussion a few years back I mentioned that most started with alcohol so wouldn't that be the real "gateway" drug. I was told well most people can get an older sibling/friend to go and buy it for them and marijuana was bought from a dealer and that got them into illicit drug use. I then asked wouldn't it then be better to legalize it so they could get it the same way as alcohol? The question was not well received.

I wonder if part of that is due to the govt, back in the 60s and before I think they used red phosphorus and iodine. Now they use crap like JeepHammer said below because the govt started tracing the red phosphorus. No idea what they are using now that sudafed and ephedrine are tracked.

The lithium from lithium batters, no idea what else. Or at least they did when you could buy sudafed and/or ephedrine off the shelf. No idea now.

Click to expand...

ZERO tolerance around here...

It took me a LONG TIME to consider alcohol as any real issue in kids.
After all, I did try and sneak booze when I was their age, and I was successful...

A drug & alcohol counselor pointed out that about every serious addict starts with alcohol, the further down they go the earlier they usually started.

Now we know for a fact that developing brains are much more changed forever than we previously thought.
From heavy metal poisoning to alcohol, to drugs, the developing brain soaks them up like a sponge, and is forever changed.

The guys that worked for me were mostly vets that had demons, we watched each other.

When the family/friends come out,
NO BOOZE for kids, period.

Adults reminded to keep it light, set an example that didn't include binge drinking or falling down drunk.

See the kids (or some adults) sitting with noses in cell phones, I'd turn off the cell booster & wi-fi.
Stay engaged in what's real and all around you.
Its not just booze & drugs they get addicted to.

Same deal on the gun range or shop,
No horseplay, no 'Call Of Duty' talk, mind on what you are doing.
Want to horseplay? Lots of yard, a lake, and other places to do it.

Kids will be kids after all, but not holding firearms or around equipment that will take you arm off in half a heartbeat.

Rotten tomato fights, mud clod fights, water fights, the occasional cow pie...
All encouraged!
Kids have to be kids sometime!

We have hosted 21 "At Risk" mentor kids down through the years,
19 turned out OK considering the start they had.
When you meet a 14 year old that doesn't know what to do with a fresh salad, never had one before, then you start to wonder what the hell is wrong with 'Parents'...
And every other adult around them.

My girlfriend’s little brother posted this on Facebook the other day. It’s a little long-winded but there’s proof that destructive behavior can be overcome with a little motivation.
—————-
Imagine if you will, an alternate universe where one could change their lives for the better. That is the premise of this yarn I am about to tell...
Today on the anniversary of my arrest November 17th 2017 I look back upon the winding trail I have taken. On that day 4 years ago I left my house to get some rock from Mulzer’s and when I returned I saw 10 cop cars lining my driveway. I stopped as I knew what was sitting on my kitchen counter. I thought to myself should I just drive by? Naw might as well get it started.
So I pulled in and Sheriff Malone was halfway down my driveway. I pulled up to him and he said shut her down Jeremy I did. Guns drawn officers came towards the Sheriff and I.I looked at Malone and said don’t let them shoot me. He told me he wouldn’t and So I was cuffed and led away. At my house was found what was said to be a large quantity of meth. I don’t know if it was, as it was merely a 90 day supply to me. Along with a few guns. Long story short. The gun charges were dropped as I had just helped the FBI catch a serial John Deere tractor thief who had sold me 7 of the darling John Deeres that is another story but the fellow in question of that ordeal was a fairly unstable individual and I had been told to be armed as I am fairly alone back here at the end of my 1800 foot driveway on the Anderson.
At first I was charged with dealing due to the quantity but that didn't pan out as I had denied the fellow the police had sent to buy from me days before as I did not sell drugs. I may have shared but I quit dealing in 2005. When asked why I had so much. Answer well if i bought a gram a day every day for a month cost 3000 dollars more than i could afford. If I bought a quarter pound at a time. Cost goes down to 600 per month, something I could afford. I was then asked why is it in several different bags? Well one does not mix their vodka with their single malt do they? Mmmm So again long story short I pled guilty to possession of Meth. And the rehabilitation segment begins.
Perry county has a community corrections department and in this department there are women who can be hammers or who can be life coaches. From my experience it is totally dependent on what they are given to work with. Mine kinda started as a hammer and gradually turned into a life coach who if she ever decides to give up on her career as a corrections person I would gladly hire to continue my coaching. At her direction I went to see a shrink, a rather forward thinking shrink who after many long talks and much testing diagnosed me with ADD. And again I was placed on speed only now it was Adderall pills, a controlled metered known concentration that was tiratied by a professional just for me. Also now I picked it up at CVS instead of behind the floodwall in Cannelton and it was subsidised by my insurance. Who even knew this was an option? If I had I would have selected it years ago and saved myself and my family much grief. Alas but hindsight is 20/20.
My life forever changed as I had struggled for decades. Always tested well but struggled with execution. Flunked out of 4 colleges, had impulse control issues, chemical issues, attendance issues, marital issues, so many ****ing issues my nickname should have been shoes. Suddenly the squirrel in my head no longer ran here and there looking for nuts but he got on his hamster wheel and got busy. My business which had been making it for years but was nothing special came to life. Sales doubled , tripled, ect ect . I saw opportunities where before I had not. We started advertising campaigns and fostered direct relationships with companies to do their capital recovery gaining us first dibs on surplus. We built international relationships for trade. Today on this 4 year anniversary we will ship 200k worth of surplus to China bringing those dollars not just from overseas into America but into Perry county specifically.
The Air Force has landed helicopters in my backyard at daylight to pick up surplus, the US Nuclear Warfare Center has my cell number, Norfolk Naval Shipyard has us listed as a supplier, along with Los Alamos and Oak Ridge National laboratories. All are past , present and hopefully future customers. Along with thousands of other companies whom we both buy from and sell to adding value hopefully in both directions. I have not done it alone, many have helped me. And still more will in the future. I pray as teamwork is key. My hands can only do so much (not that much in fact) LOL.
We now have other endeavors both for profit and not for profit with a focus on Perry County. We met our goals for donations to local charities this year as I will not look outside of our community for things to support while anything in our community needs anything. Thank you to everyone who helped me decide on these causes as I am kinda in my own little bubble back here. I do not see what you all see. Feel free to point things in need out to me. Perry County is our home and I happen to love Perry county. And I am excited to see what we can build here. And look forward for what the future holds.
Moral of this story is do not give up. On yourself or your friends and family as many are struggling and don’t even know why. Took me 43 years to figure out why. I always thought and many others as well that I was just an addict. In fact I was just searching for something to make me whole.

Knight Rider said:

I’ve done plenty of stupid stuff in my youth, some of which probably should have led to my early demise. That said, I don’t blame guns for gun violence and deaths and I don’t blame drugs for overdoses.

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I agree entirely and would go to the extent that I think any drug that can be imagined should be available over the counter with FDA quality assurance and dosage recommendations, like anything else.

Fent is a bit of a different animal from most, not because of what it's made of but the concentration of it. It is lethal at such a ridiculously low level that it's kind of horrifying. That's the kind of thing that raises alarm bells for public safety for reasons far beyond addiction.

Addiction isn't that big of a deal as long as recovery services exist and we stop acting like it's acceptable for people to have no self control.

Something that can kill you at 2mg is awfully sketchy.

Ark said:

I sure don't understand lying to and killing your customers like that.

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They might not even know. Or they did know but didn't know quite how strong it was. Or they did know it was going to probably kill them. Both of the last two are advertising, word of mouth about how strong their stuff is, we should get ours from him.

That is one of the reasons I'm for legalization and not just for pot. Bayer used to sell heroin pills way back, they were OTC. Now I don't think people should be doing heroin, but if they are something like that would be a much better way. Rather than meeting a dealer and buying something of unknown quality or ingredients, go down to the corner drugstore and buy something with a known purity/strength. Or grow/make their own. And that goes for most drugs. You don't know what anything might be laced with or if it's real and not something else. I remember hearing about some guy the police busted, everybody said he had the best coke. They arrested him but not for coke. What he was selling was meth, lidocaine, and a few other things including some form of opiate.

JeepHammer said:

ZERO tolerance around here...

It took me a LONG TIME to consider alcohol as any real issue in kids.
After all, I did try and sneak booze when I was their age, and I was successful...

A drug & alcohol counselor pointed out that about every serious addict starts with alcohol, the further down they go the earlier they usually started.

Now we know for a fact that developing brains are much more changed forever than we previously thought.
From heavy metal poisoning to alcohol, to drugs, the developing brain soaks them up like a sponge, and is forever changed.


We have hosted 21 "At Risk" mentor kids down through the years,
19 turned out OK considering the start they had.
When you meet a 14 year old that doesn't know what to do with a fresh salad, never had one before, then you start to wonder what the hell is wrong with 'Parents'...
And every other adult around them.

Click to expand...

About kids I'm torn, IMO it could be a good thing to let them drink. Heck it's legal for parents to let their kids drink in quite a few states over half iirc. Heck isn't it normal in most of Europe to let the kids have a glass of wine/beer with dinner?

The reason I think it could be a good thing is give them some experience in a controlled environment is to help teach them to drink responsibly before they hit 21 and go wild if they want. Did you teach your kids to drive or did you just throw them the keys say "have at it" then sit down and watch TV?

I do know some parents who do let their kids drink, generally a glass of wine with dinner. And it is A glass. At my wedding a friend came up and asked my wife if her daughter could have a glass of champaigne because she never had it and wanted to try it. My wife asked me if it was okay, and I told her it's her kid I don't mind. Heck shortly before that I offered a glass to my son. I knew the parents they raised good kids. The one was a certified all position welder by Ivy Tech in iirc stick, mig, and tig. That was before he graduated H.S., he couldn't even get a job doing it due to child labor laws. Other two got degrees in I can't remember but were doing decent in their life.

As for the last part, you did a good thing sir. And yes some of the stories are heart wrenching. I knew a 13 yr old girl who was a friend of a friend sort of thing. She was about 5 her brother was still in diapers and drinking out of a bottle and her "parents" disappeared for I don't know exactly how long, but at least 5 days on a crack binge. I know it was at least that long because that's when she called her Grandma because she couldn't get her brother to stop crying and didn't know what to do. I think the grandma didn't call the police so absolutely nothing happened. They did end up losing them several times but always got them back.

Timjoebillybob said:

About kids I'm torn, IMO it could be a good thing to let them drink. Heck it's legal for parents to let their kids drink in quite a few states over half iirc. Heck isn't it normal in most of Europe to let the kids have a glass of wine/beer with dinner?

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Amen, my parents had no qualms about letting me have a beer here or there.

I never really drank much but I decided to binge to celebrate my 21st and I'm surprised I'm still alive after a 1/4 bottle of everclear.

But I've never gone back to it and really just have a beer once in a great while, usually with company around to chill out and relax.

Case in point, it was never a forbidden fruit in my life. Therefor there was no allure to it.

Ark said:

I sure don't understand lying to and killing your customers like that.

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The street level guys are not in on the mix. They have a supply chain like any other business unless it’s a local meth lab that screws the recipe.
But still the end used is the reason that business exists.