Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

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    DadSmith

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    It’s not looking good for the Russian conscripts.

    View attachment 225844
    All war is a sad affair. Loss of life, and the inhumane acts committed by all sides is horrible.

    You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
     

    Tombs

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    I think the world has to be careful with appeasement. It is very dangerous with someone like Putin. If Ukraine were to stop now and sign over all the territory it has lost I believe Putin would take a year or two to rebuild and reorganize and then we would see this happen all over again. Another invasion with more territory annexed. Then after Ukraine is gone, it's on to Lithuania, Finland and Poland. Where does it end? Do we give them back Alaska if they threaten us?

    Poland wants to fight Russia, many nations are quietly hoping Russia over steps its bounds so historical pissing matches can be avenged. Almost everyone is better equipped and would curb stomp Russia if they got stupid.

    The only reason Russia has any success in Ukraine is down to there being a split in attitudes between the people. There are significant chunks of Ukraine that has Russian sympathies or out right want Russia to annex their territory.

    To understand why Russia wouldn't simply go crazy and invade the entire world, you need to understand their national interests in invading Ukraine. They saw what they assumed would be an unstoppable push for Ukraine to join NATO and slap missiles within a stone's throw of Moscow. They also want control over their primary export. Why do you think they spent so much money on Nordstream 2? Would an invasion into greater Europe really help them at all, when their objective is to sell oil to Europe?

    With more than half of Russia's economy being based on selling energy to Europe, through Ukraine, they saw the writing on the wall that if Ukraine became any more friendly with the west, they would cease to exist.
     

    Wolfhound

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    Poland wants to fight Russia, many nations are quietly hoping Russia over steps its bounds so historical pissing matches can be avenged. Almost everyone is better equipped and would curb stomp Russia if they got stupid.

    The only reason Russia has any success in Ukraine is down to there being a split in attitudes between the people. There are significant chunks of Ukraine that has Russian sympathies or out right want Russia to annex their territory.

    To understand why Russia wouldn't simply go crazy and invade the entire world, you need to understand their national interests in invading Ukraine. They saw what they assumed would be an unstoppable push for Ukraine to join NATO and slap missiles within a stone's throw of Moscow. They also want control over their primary export. Why do you think they spent so much money on Nordstream 2? Would an invasion into greater Europe really help them at all, when their objective is to sell oil to Europe?

    With more than half of Russia's economy being based on selling energy to Europe, through Ukraine, they saw the writing on the wall that if Ukraine became any more friendly with the west, they would cease to exist.
    I think you are probably right about Russian strategy and ambitions in Ukraine. However, I still believe Putin has global ambitions. Russia has been involved in 14 conflicts/invasions/crushed rebellions just since 1991. Not really minding their business in my eyes.

     

    DragonGunner

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    Jordan Peterson just said that its naive to think Putin will lose the war. Come winter its off with their heads. He believes Putin would use nukes. He said we sold our souls to the climate change crap, and that giving up our energy for Russian gas and oil for "climate change" leaves Putin with a victory....even if Russia is beat and if he did withdrawal (not likely) he would leave Ukraine in ruins, and tell his people they won and kept Ukraine from becoming a western country, the people would buy that. But how is that winning. If he does use nukes nobody will do anything about it and he knows it. If we go in how is that winning....we put ourselves between two hells....choose....its still hell. Says he is very frightened for this winter, especially for poor people, its the poor people who will all suffer around the word as he see energy going sky high. But nobody cares about poor people, and climate idiots don't love the world and earth, they actually just hate humanity. So a bunch of poor humanity dies, they don't care.....and so it may be.
     

    smokingman

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    One supposes that Angela Merkel will have no difficulty heating her home this winter

    The elite will never care until their special status is revoked and they are forced to have skin in the game
    She likes her place in Solda Italy when it gets really cold. That and she made just over 11 million in 2021 alone. I am sure she will have zero problems with heat,and could care less about peasants.
     

    mmpsteve

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    .... I am sure she will have zero problems with heat,and could care less about peasants.

    I could envision scenarios where she might learn to care about the peasants a little more. Could get sporty over there this winter.

    Shame, it was such an avoidable, human-engineered tragedy being foisted on the world.

    .
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    I could envision scenarios where she might learn to care about the peasants a little more. Could get sporty over there this winter.

    Shame, it was such an avoidable, human-engineered tragedy being foisted on the world.

    .
    Other than weather-related (NOT climate change related) or other natural disasters, aren't most of the world's problems human-engineered tragedies?
     

    Tombs

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    I think you are probably right about Russian strategy and ambitions in Ukraine. However, I still believe Putin has global ambitions. Russia has been involved in 14 conflicts/invasions/crushed rebellions just since 1991. Not really minding their business in my eyes.


    And how many conflicts have we been involved in since 1991? Global powers do global power things.

    I don't subscribe to "but it's different when we do it."
     

    Tombs

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    Kosovo ring any bells?

    Punishing civilians for doing what it takes to survive is pretty disgusting.

    Not everyone agrees with the "to the last man, woman, and child" mantra their government seems to demand of their citizens. They already live in one of the most corrupt countries in the world, what difference do you think they see between living under a Ukrainian government or a Russian one? Trading **** for ****.

    Not to mention there's puppeteering of their leadership between the West and Russia. In some regions it might as well just be Russia, as leadership is basically taking orders from the Kremlin.
     
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    smokingman

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    And how many conflicts have we been involved in since 1991? Global powers do global power things.

    I don't subscribe to "but it's different when we do it."
    750 bases in 81 countries.
    Since 1991 we have been in 21 major conflicts and around 40 lessor ones(like protecting the central bank of Ethiopia during the ongoing civil war).

    Just in 2019
    "In 2019, US Special Operations forces were deployed in 22 African countries: Algeria, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Chad, Côte D’Ivoire, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, Libya, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia, Tanzania and Tunisia.

    This accounts for a significant proportion of US Special Operations forces’ global activity: more than 14% of US commandos deployed overseas in 2019 were sent to Africa, the largest percentage of any region in the world except for the greater Middle East.

    These figures come from information provided to the M&G by the US military’s Special Operations Command and Africa Command (AFRICOM)." None of those counted as major operations.
     

    mmpsteve

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    Other than weather-related (NOT climate change related) or other natural disasters, aren't most of the world's problems human-engineered tragedies?

    I suppose you're right, never thought about it like that. I guess the one we're referencing has just happened so fast, historically speaking, that it's hard to wrap my head around. Or maybe it's the steep angle of 180 degrees turnaround so fast.

    .
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    I suppose you're right, never thought about it like that. I guess the one we're referencing has just happened so fast, historically speaking, that it's hard to wrap my head around. Or maybe it's the steep angle of 180 degrees turnaround so fast.

    .
    It hasn't happened all that fast. This is just the latest flair-up of an ongoing conflict.
     

    Wolfhound

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    And how many conflicts have we been involved in since 1991? Global powers do global power things.

    I don't subscribe to "but it's different when we do it."
    And I don’t subscribe to the “ but the evil USA does it too” newsletter.

    How many territories have we annexed in the past 50 years?

    Russia is more of a regional power. USSR was global.
     

    BiscuitsandGravy

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    Jordan Peterson just said that its naive to think Putin will lose the war. Come winter its off with their heads. He believes Putin would use nukes. He said we sold our souls to the climate change crap, and that giving up our energy for Russian gas and oil for "climate change" leaves Putin with a victory....even if Russia is beat and if he did withdrawal (not likely) he would leave Ukraine in ruins, and tell his people they won and kept Ukraine from becoming a western country, the people would buy that. But how is that winning. If he does use nukes nobody will do anything about it and he knows it. If we go in how is that winning....we put ourselves between two hells....choose....its still hell. Says he is very frightened for this winter, especially for poor people, its the poor people who will all suffer around the word as he see energy going sky high. But nobody cares about poor people, and climate idiots don't love the world and earth, they actually just hate humanity. So a bunch of poor humanity dies, they don't care.....and so it may be.
    Victor Davis Hanson has also mentioned that he believes Putin would use his nukes if pushed hard enough. I'm really surprised the oligarchs haven't gotten tired of all the sanctions and 'done' something. Some general or generals or someone you think would have their 'price' if given an exit strategy of sorts.
     
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