To mask or not to mask....That is the question. Part II

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  • Ingomike

    Grandmaster
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    May 26, 2018
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    To drain the swamp properly, one must not concern oneself with what rank-and-file deep-state swamp-dwellers think.
    There is never going to be consensus on our belief that DC needs to be cleansed of the partisan civil employees, so one must be able to work in the system to achieve our goals…
     

    Ingomike

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    I remember that but it would take longer than a presidential term to litigate it to SCOTUS unless they agreed to fast track it. That is the disgusting part of the permanent deep state, they have no term limits…
     

    BugI02

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    Jul 4, 2013
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    I dunno. Maybe it beats blind trust? :dunno:

    Meanwhile, Desantis draining some real ass swamp in FL.
    DeSantis hasn't accomplished anything close to what Trump did, nor has he been tested on the national stage trying to head a divided government and a divided country, and I'M the one engaging in blind trust?

    I think you need to acknowledge you are on the 'anyone but Trump' spectrum somewhere (and that colors your vaunted, claimed 'careful consideration of all sides of an issue') as well as acknowledge that your faith in DeSantis is exactly where my faith in Trump was in 2015 - in the category of hopes and prayers

    ETA, DeSantis is the Gavin Newsome of the right at this time
     

    BugI02

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    Agent of the State.
    Non-government entities acting on behalf of the government become responsible by the same laws as the government .
    I like it! Might I suggest that the term 'non-state actor' has already be deployed as a descriptor for unofficial or ad hoc groups operating where only a state should be, usually with strongly negative connotation. Perhaps adopt that nomenclature
    I remember that but it would take longer than a presidential term to litigate it to SCOTUS unless they agreed to fast track it. That is the disgusting part of the permanent deep state, they have no term limits…
    Why couldn't it simply be an EO, like it was when Trump implemented it. Then 'drive it like you stole it' and use it everywhere a court doesn't prevent you while the challenges to it grind slowly within the wheels of justice

    Reclassify them, fire them, rescind any clearances they have and let them go to court. Your term will be over before they even get a trial
     

    Ingomike

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    May 26, 2018
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    Why couldn't it simply be an EO, like it was when Trump implemented it. Then 'drive it like you stole it' and use it everywhere a court doesn't prevent you while the challenges to it grind slowly within the wheels of justice

    Reclassify them, fire them, rescind any clearances they have and let them go to court. Your term will be over before they even get a trial
    My thinking was they will likely get a blanket federal court order to stay the action until resolved since that action favors the permanent deep state…
     

    indyblue

    Guns & Pool Shooter
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    Aug 13, 2013
    3,593
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    Indy Northside `O=o-
    Trump is an expert negotiator and especially useful in foreign relations. For example the Middle East treaty he accomplished that no one else could.

    DeSantis it is still unknown how well he could do that. That’s about my only concern with him.
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
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    Jul 4, 2013
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    My thinking was they will likely get a blanket federal court order to stay the action until resolved since that action favors the permanent deep state…
    Then walk through the door 20 Jan 2025 with the EO typed up as well as every pink slip for the first three or four tiers of management at all problematic agencies and have people in place to escort them to the curb and keep them out. Then even in the event of a stay, you can maintain that new status quo while you appeal - and appeal and appeal until it gets to SCOTUS

    Meanwhile, as someone else said, you roll with acting directors and acting deputy directors and begin to clean house. The real difficulty would be maintaining secrecy about your intent to prevent pre-emptive court action
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Jul 17, 2011
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    Gtown-ish
    DeSantis hasn't accomplished anything close to what Trump did, nor has he been tested on the national stage trying to head a divided government and a divided country, and I'M the one engaging in blind trust?

    I think you need to acknowledge you are on the 'anyone but Trump' spectrum somewhere (and that colors your vaunted, claimed 'careful consideration of all sides of an issue') as well as acknowledge that your faith in DeSantis is exactly where my faith in Trump was in 2015 - in the category of hopes and prayers

    ETA, DeSantis is the Gavin Newsome of the right at this time
    What swamp did Trump drain exactly? I don't see DeSantis picking pointless, petty fights with idiots. He doesn't throw temper tantrums when someone insults his...uh...hand size. He's more articulate. More intelligent. More knowledgeable about government. I think he has potential to do more than Trump did. But agreed, that's only potential, because DeSantis has not been tested on the national stage. It's not blind faith, because he has been tested in FL and has done a very good job as governor. That usually translates well to running the country. Plenty of reasons to extrapolate that to the national stage. So NOT blind faith.

    And you keep on with this tired old neverTrumper ****. Anyone but Trump? Really? At this point I'd rather not see Trump in the Whitehouse. Somehow you've reasoned that means anyone but Trump, which is pretty astonishingly bad reasoning. I want someone better in the Whitehouse than Trump, which is IMO DeSantis. But I hope that one of those two will be in the Whitehouse in Jan 2025. So no. Not 'anyone but Trump'. If Trump wins the nomination I'll vote for him. I'd rather DeSantis.

    So what about you? Are you an 'onlyTrumper'? You gonna vote for DeSantis if he wins the nomination, or will you sit home because 'no one but Trump'? If you would vote for DeSantis if he is the nominee, then great. We're not all that far off. If you won't vote for anyone but Trump, I think you should probably just focus on you and stop agonizing over what other people think of your guy.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Jul 17, 2011
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    Gtown-ish
    Why couldn't it simply be an EO, like it was when Trump implemented it. Then 'drive it like you stole it' and use it everywhere a court doesn't prevent you while the challenges to it grind slowly within the wheels of justice

    Reclassify them, fire them, rescind any clearances they have and let them go to court. Your term will be over before they even get a trial
    EO is the only play. But it's effectiveness is probably gonna be limited becasue some court would probably block it. And SCOTUS isn't gonna hear that case.
     

    BugI02

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    he has been tested in FL and has done a very good job as governor. That usually translates well to running the country
    Carter was a governor, Bill Clinton was a governor, Jeb and W were governors, Romney was a governor, Scott Walker was a governor

    Need I go on? That statement is BS. You single handedly trying to make the DeSantis cult a thing?
     

    BugI02

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    Columbus, OH
    So what about you? Are you an 'onlyTrumper'? You gonna vote for DeSantis if he wins the nomination,
    Of course I will, but to me it will be settling for decidedly second best and when he augers in I will not let you forget that you stupid mother******* could have had a proven winner but your feels were apparently more important than saving the republic

    If you think DeSantis won't get the same treatment Trump did, from both sides, you should put down the pipe
     

    BugI02

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    EO is the only play. But it's effectiveness is probably gonna be limited becasue some court would probably block it. And SCOTUS isn't gonna hear that case.
    The important part is if you reclassify and fire them on day one, you can avoid having to take them back until the appeals are exhausted, and then you can slow walk reissuing their clearances, too. Meanwhile you have quite possibly a couple of years to run things the way you want
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Gtown-ish
    The important part is if you reclassify and fire them on day one, you can avoid having to take them back until the appeals are exhausted, and then you can slow walk reissuing their clearances, too. Meanwhile you have quite possibly a couple of years to run things the way you want
    I don't see a reason why you couldn't assign them to storage room B when courts force the administration to take them back.
     

    jamil

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    Of course I will, but to me it will be settling for decidedly second best and when he augers in I will not let you forget that you stupid mother******* could have had a proven winner but your feels were apparently more important than saving the republic

    If you think DeSantis won't get the same treatment Trump did, from both sides, you should put down the pipe
    Is this the rules of engagement? I can play that too, but INGO might get bored and mods would start circling with hammers poised.

    It's only your opinion that you're settling for 2nd best. It's only my opinion that I'd be settling for 2nd best if Trump won. It's no more feels than yours for Trump. I'd wager less. So the bet would be that feelings play a larger role in your undying devotion to Trump than my dislike. You seem to get your cackles up when anyone doesn't worship him, and seem not to accept the fact that it's just different opinions about who is better. Feelings tend to play a large role in that sort of thing.


    BTW, DeSantis gets that kind of treatment now, albeit scaled to a state. Of course at the national level where any threat to TPTB will be met fiercely. But I like the way he handles it in FL.
     
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    jamil

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    Carter was a governor, Bill Clinton was a governor, Jeb and W were governors, Romney was a governor, Scott Walker was a governor

    Need I go on? That statement is BS. You single handedly trying to make the DeSantis cult a thing?
    Carter was not a good governor. Bill Clinton was not a good governor. Jeb, W, Obomney, and so on. Scott Walker was never president. So you don't need to go on, you just have to understand what I actually said.

    This isn't a DeSantis cult thing. DeSantis is in the discussion because he's been effective in FL and looks to me to have a better way of handling adversity than the Trump tantrums. I mean. If you want to talk about cults, what bigger cult is there than Trumpmania? I mean he has an almost god-like persona to some of you.
     
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