Leaked/breaking:Roe v. Wade expected to be overturned

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,937
    113
    Avon
    Seems to me in the last 38 years, Republicans have had a much greater impact on my familys don'ts and can not's than Democrats.
    And it seems to be accelerating.
    "If you like your insurance, you can keep it."

    I would argue that, on anything of actual import, it is the other side of the aisle that restricts your freedom. (Though, I equally oppose legislating morality from the right.)
     

    Creedmoor

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    6,425
    113
    Madison Co Indiana
    Haha tell that to the 63,459,781 dead babies.
    Its full of irony that so many here act like its just the democrats that have abortions.
    One in four, look around at the family partys this Grand July 4th weekend.

    Im well old enough to remember pre 1973 my friend. We lived in a Country that was chock full of Orphanages and State Institutions where most of those infants went.
    I grew up close to a Baptist Home for Children, I was educated with 75+- of kids that lived there.
    The Home is still there today, its full of homeless familys now, Im betting shortly it returns tl its former glory.
     

    chipbennett

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    10,937
    113
    Avon
    Its full of irony that so many here act like its just the democrats that have abortions.
    One in four, look around at the family partys this Grand July 4th weekend
    .

    Im well old enough to remember pre 1973 my friend. We lived in a Country that was chock full of Orphanages and State Institutions where most of those infants went.
    I grew up close to a Baptist Home for Children, I was educated with 75+- of kids that lived there.
    The Home is still there today, its full of homeless familys now, Im betting shortly it returns tl its former glory.
    What would we expect to happen, as a society, when we a) devalue sexual relationships, and b) promote the use of abortion as a means of birth control?

    I advocate for prohibiting abortion, but not for stone-throwing. Abortion is abhorrent. Most of the people getting abortions do so because they see it as their only option, and need love and support. Both things are true, simultaneously.
     

    Creedmoor

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    6,425
    113
    Madison Co Indiana
    That's a bit of a non sequitur, isn't it? The original complaint was that women who engage in certain behaviors are called "whores", while the men who co-equally engage in those behaviors are not similarly described. I'm merely stating that any description applies to both parties, equally.

    Personally, I don't call anyone such (or any other) names. People are free to engage in whatever consenting, lawful activities they choose. I only insist that they take responsibility for the consequences of their decisions and actions.
    Well Welcome to America, you can insist on anything you wish my friend. The woman across the street is allowed to insist on her wishes also.
    We should be careful on things we wish for with such a young country.
     

    ditcherman

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
    7,607
    113
    In the country, hopefully.
    Its full of irony that so many here act like its just the democrats that have abortions.
    One in four, look around at the family partys this Grand July 4th weekend.

    Im well old enough to remember pre 1973 my friend. We lived in a Country that was chock full of Orphanages and State Institutions where most of those infants went.
    I grew up close to a Baptist Home for Children, I was educated with 75+- of kids that lived there.
    The Home is still there today, its full of homeless familys now, Im betting shortly it returns tl its former glory.
    I haven’t seen anyone here say it’s just democrats, not sure why you need to defend against that.

    Also not sure where you get your 1 in 4 number from. That’s a whopping 25%. I don’t know anyone who had had an abortion and I know way more than 100 people. I know, next you say because it’s a secret; well, I know more than a hundred women that I know have not had an abortion. So I say less than 1%, you say 25%.
    25%.
    Nope.

    Anyway, there’s the answer to your deflection, the theory you posited was that R’s inhibited your life more than D’s, and if you looked at that subjectively I don’t think there’s any way you could come to that conclusion either. I mean, do you have a list handy?
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,860
    113
    Merrillville
    What's wrong with minding our own business and not having to call them any names? I think on a case by case basis, one could reasonably call them irresponsible. Calling either the women or men who unintentionally cause a pregnancy whore, or some "whore" derivative is completely unnecessary. If you have to judge every individual for all the things you don't approve of, at least make it accurate.
    Not just men judge or name call.
    Men also get judged, just differently.
    His job
    His bank account.
    If he "lives with mommy"
    Etc
     

    oze

    Mow Ho
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Feb 26, 2018
    3,024
    113
    Fort Wayne
    Lets say this, im a Jehovahs Witness and my believes are no more blood transfusions for me. And my believe is correct so no transfusions for anybody.
    Yeah, 'cause the main reason to get a blood transfusion is the murder an innocent baby. Got it.
     

    ditcherman

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Dec 18, 2018
    7,607
    113
    In the country, hopefully.
    Its full of irony that so many here act like its just the democrats that have abortions.
    One in four, look around at the family partys this Grand July 4th weekend.

    Im well old enough to remember pre 1973 my friend. We lived in a Country that was chock full of Orphanages and State Institutions where most of those infants went.
    I grew up close to a Baptist Home for Children, I was educated with 75+- of kids that lived there.
    The Home is still there today, its full of homeless familys now, Im betting shortly it returns tl its former glory.
    Specifically concerning the 1 in 4 number you keep bringing up, stats I find point more towards .5%. A half of a percent. Wondering where you’re getting 25%?

    ETA link https://nrlc.org/uploads/factsheets/FS01AbortionintheUS.pdf
     
    Last edited:

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    31,886
    149
    Columbus, OH
    Judicial relief takes time and resources and opens the door to abuse the other way. We already know those cases like the life of the mother exception, so why wouldn't we put those into the legislation? Fixing overly broad legislation with the judiciary is just an excuse for bad legislation. I take your point given the number of young people "with glaucoma who need medical marijuana," there are obvious issues both directions -
    I would think Covid would have taught you that the medical establishment is of no higher morality than anyone else, and I do not think the possibility of 'abuse the other way' is reason enough to open loopholes in the statute. I will point out also, that many laws reference the mother's health rather than life, which is an even bigger loophole since often the nebulous mental health of the mother is referenced as reason enough to abort and it really becomes on demand if you or your parents can afford to buy a sympathetic diagnosis. Those people can already afford abortion tourism so they will not be inconvenienced. I would also point out that there seems no shortage of medical professionals willing to stipulate that 'gender affirming' medical care is life saving care and advocate it even for minors. I don't think we can have a strong statute without pushing those exceptions and edge cases to judicial review
    I agree on the ID issue; we could totally fix that by providing say, a free day of public transportation each quarter just to ensure people have access to get to the BMV for a state-issued ID as just one idea offhand (I also think state-issued IDs, but not driver's licenses, should be tax funded). Okay, back to the topic on hand.
    Why is it government's role to fix all problems of whatever scale? If some vote harvesting NGO wants to convey them to the necessary appointments, fine - but make the appointments necessary. Uniform rules for everybody as to what is acceptable ID. They usually have approximately 2 years between voting opportunities to make arrangements to be eligible for the next vote, it seems time enough for them to make some kind of arrangement. Secure elections are far more important than coddling grannies who don't take care of business
     

    BugI02

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 4, 2013
    31,886
    149
    Columbus, OH
    What's wrong with minding our own business and not having to call them any names? I think on a case by case basis, one could reasonably call them irresponsible. Calling either the women or men who unintentionally cause a pregnancy whore, or some "whore" derivative is completely unnecessary. If you have to judge every individual for all the things you don't approve of, at least make it accurate.
    I reject the idea that men and women are 'unintentionally causing a pregnancy' when they have unprotected sex. They are heedlessly risking/causing a pregnancy because until now they had a retroactive fix for the problem. They don't consider it murder but just as many if not more people do

    Like the pithy quote says, 'you wore a mask for two years, you can wear a condom for 48 seconds' - or go on the pill (at your own expense)


    ETA: The concept of 'negligent discharge' might apply in these cases as well as in gun safety
     
    Last edited:

    Creedmoor

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    6,425
    113
    Madison Co Indiana
    What would we expect to happen, as a society, when we a) devalue sexual relationships, and b) promote the use of abortion as a means of birth control?

    I advocate for prohibiting abortion, but not for stone-throwing. Abortion is abhorrent. Most of the people getting abortions do so because they see it as their only option, and need love and support. Both things are true, simultaneously.
    Thats still what You see, not what everyone sees.
    Its easy for a man to avoid being involved.
    Dont bust up in there.
    I haven’t seen anyone here say it’s just democrats, not sure why you need to defend against that.

    Also not sure where you get your 1 in 4 number from. That’s a whopping 25%. I don’t know anyone who had had an abortion and I know way more than 100 people. I know, next you say because it’s a secret; well, I know more than a hundred women that I know have not had an abortion. So I say less than 1%, you say 25%.
    25%.
    Nope.

    Anyway, there’s the answer to your deflection, the theory you posited was that R’s inhibited your life more than D’s, and if you looked at that subjectively I don’t think there’s any way you could come to that conclusion either. I mean, do you have a list handy?
    Not Democrats? Maybe you should reread rhis thread.

    Well, you believe you and i'll believe what ive seen with the last 60+ years. Ive had a few years of traveling this great country with work, met a lot of folks along the way.
    Youre asking for a list of women that I know that have had abortions? You kidd,
    Do you really believe that most women will freely admit they have had one or more abortions to the free world in conversation?
    I know what I have seen in my life and we are getting ready for a repeat performance.
     

    Creedmoor

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Mar 10, 2022
    6,425
    113
    Madison Co Indiana
    Because he's a democrat, and advocate for baby killing isn't a good look? So it becomes 'your side is doing it, too' which speaks not at all to the morality of the practice
    Now that funny, because i'm a Pro Abortion I must be a Democrat.
    You dont know me well enough. Ive most definitely earned the Right to Believe in What I Wish.

    Don't let your emotions make your decisions.

    Does your book of Morals cover making Judgements? I recall it does, a few times.

    The pillars some of you all live on.

    Does this mean some here will refuse to sell to me in the classifieds?
     

    JEBland

    INGO's least subtle Alphabet agency taskforce spy
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Oct 24, 2020
    1,976
    113
    South of you
    I would think Covid would have taught you that the medical establishment is of no higher morality than anyone else, and I do not think the possibility of 'abuse the other way' is reason enough to open loopholes in the statute. I will point out also, that many laws reference the mother's health rather than life, which is an even bigger loophole since often the nebulous mental health of the mother is referenced as reason enough to abort and it really becomes on demand if you or your parents can afford to buy a sympathetic diagnosis. Those people can already afford abortion tourism so they will not be inconvenienced. I would also point out that there seems no shortage of medical professionals willing to stipulate that 'gender affirming' medical care is life saving care and advocate it even for minors. I don't think we can have a strong statute without pushing those exceptions and edge cases to judicial review
    Honestly, I think my example of "glaucoma" or "I need weed for anxiety" in young people is a better example than covid for the (lack of) morality in the medical establishment. You are saying loopholes a little loosely. Here I'm saying that we can have a narrowly tailored exception for the mother's life. We agree about injecting and chopping up minors masquerading as healthcare, I'm fine with a bill that prohibits that under the age of consent (I think the TX Rs have such a bill on their to-do list). We seem to be running into the same sort of problem that we all rallied against for HB1296 for permit-less carry - we want to make it as painless as possible for the legitimate people and put the burden on the state for those violating the law. (Okay, you're in OH, but I assume you approve of IN and OHs permit-less carry, which follows an analogous reasoning in terms of reducing burden on law-abiding, punish the criminals).


    Why is it government's role to fix all problems of whatever scale? If some vote harvesting NGO wants to convey them to the necessary appointments, fine - but make the appointments necessary. Uniform rules for everybody as to what is acceptable ID. They usually have approximately 2 years between voting opportunities to make arrangements to be eligible for the next vote, it seems time enough for them to make some kind of arrangement. Secure elections are far more important than coddling grannies who don't take care of business
    So. I'm of the opinion that anything that even has a whiff of an imposition on constitutional rights should be at the very least tax-funded (that means no $200 tax stamp, that means no fee for firearm background checks, that means no fee to apply for a carry permit, etc.) One could make the argument that the right to vote isn't constitutional... but I think one would lose that argument these days, and we'll likely never see the day that it's argued in court for citizens in good standing. I think that ID should be required to vote to ensure fair and secure elections - if there is a burden to produce ID, at least one form of valid ID should be available from the government that is tax funded. Driving is not a right, the driver's license should not be tax funded - indeed the license fee is the tax to pay for the processing.

    Now, in terms of busing, etc, that is mostly to pull the excuse rug, but isn't required (I do think it's good optics for the conservatives, but I doubt liberals would give them the credit, anyway). Basically have 7 opportunities to get free transportation to get the ID and register to vote, then I don't want to hear ******** about not having the chance.

    Edit: There's also a lot of (as far as I'm aware) unsubstantiated claims about racism in requiring ID. "Black people are less likely to have driver's licenses, and driver's licenses are the most common form of ID for voting." But that's not the relevant question - the question is "do black people have access to get an appropriate state-issued ID?" It's not required to be a driver's license. It's cherry-picking at its finest. It's also a bit racist to presume that Black people apparently can't figure out how to get ID. All these middle-class cul-de-sac-dwelling half-educated people boldly declaring things like "black people can't get ID" and "black people don't know how to use the internet." Liberals accuse conservatives of being white supremacists and then flaunt their own white savior complex. Amazing.

    Okay, end of this derailment on my end.
     
    Last edited:

    KLB

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Sep 12, 2011
    23,007
    77
    Porter County
    Also not sure where you get your 1 in 4 number from. That’s a whopping 25%. I don’t know anyone who had had an abortion and I know way more than 100 people. I know, next you say because it’s a secret; well, I know more than a hundred women that I know have not had an abortion. So I say less than 1%, you say 25%.
    I find it interesting that you think you would know if one of them had had one.

    I know of a number of women that have had them. Most tell next to no one. I found out about one around 50 years after it happened.
     

    Route 45

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    92   0   0
    Dec 5, 2015
    14,884
    113
    Indy
    I find it interesting that you think you would know if one of them had had one.

    I know of a number of women that have had them. Most tell next to no one. I found out about one around 50 years after it happened.
    Yeah, it's not like it's a light topic of conversation. Such a thing is extremly private and personal. Some people are so sure of their reality, until they do a DNA test for fun and get the results back from Ancestry DNA and find out that dad...isn't. There are secrets in life that people take to their graves.

    Knowing which woman acquaintances and seldom seen relatives have had an abortion? Hell, I've been married for 33 years and still am not sure exactly what the favorite color of the closest woman in my life is. Or whether she really likes White Castles, or is just humoring me.

    :):
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,860
    113
    Merrillville
    I find it interesting that you think you would know if one of them had had one.

    I know of a number of women that have had them. Most tell next to no one. I found out about one around 50 years after it happened.
    There were women in the Navy that would actually have a competition to see who had the most.
    And many that got pregnant so they wouldn't go to sea, then after a while, got an abortion.
    Never did a day at sea.

    I'm not saying a lot of women do that, but I witnessed it for 4 years of sea duty.
     

    jamil

    code ho
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 17, 2011
    60,142
    113
    Gtown-ish
    Men literally get arrested and taken to prison if they walk away from their child support responsibility, and get exactly zero legal say in whether the child is kept.

    There are consequences for both but we’re talking about justifying everyone calling women who get abortions whores.
     
    Top Bottom