Pence heckled. Called a traitor

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  • churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    What happens when you heretic hunters kick everyone out of the party except you 3% of America?
    Come on man what are you alluding to. This trolish behavior is going to get you set off again. Make some sense please.
    You are stirring the pot for the mere act of doing ity and adding not a damned thing to the discussion.
    You are banned from this thread.
    Get your head on right please.
     

    2tonic

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    N.W. Disillusionment
    The Arizona audit is already jumped the shark. No one with half a brain would accept whatever they "discover." The company that conducted the audit moved the results to a "lab" in Minnesota, on the private property of the owner of the audit company. No oversight. One would have to have a EPIC level of stupidity if they think such actions ensure confidence.

    Kinda like covering windows with paper and banning observers, so no one can see the back door deliveries while vote counting continues past approved hours, huh?
     

    2tonic

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    Besides this one instance that apparently conservatives disagree on, what did Pence do throughout his 4 years as VP that one would consider disloyal? Honestly, if Pence truly believed he had the ability to do what some people think he had the power to do, I have no doubt he would've it. The action would've potentially placed Trump in office for 4 more years, and primed Pence for 2028. Further, there's no way Pence did know that he was going to catch grief from Trump loyalists; and yet people believe he didn't try to throw out the votes because he had some bone to pick with Trump? On it's face it's ridiculous, and shows just how "spaced out," some Trumpers are.


    What do the previous four years have to do with it?
    Benedict Arnold was loyal til he wasn't.
    The guy next door was a great neighbor til he murdered your family.
    The hero and the heel are made in a single moment.
    When courage was called for, Pence showed none. The decision he made was not his to make. Perhaps if politicians endeavored to know and understand the Constitution as well as the men who wrote it, we would all benefit.

    Your posts always seem to contain strategically placed typos that cast doubt on your true meaning, or at least distract enough to stifle criticism due to this uncertainty.
    Let's see if you can pick it out of the quoted post above.

    Assuredly, your tone comes through, that being purposely obtuse.
    You should be an Olympian, you're so good at jumping to conclusions, especially about the thoughts or feelings of citizens who supported Trump.

    You present strawman arguments, ignoring presented evidence and counter arguments, and instead focus only on the Overton Window you wish us all to view the situation through.
    In this instance Pence should not have taken the decision he did. He should have allowed the Constitution to do its job and bring clarity to a murky situation.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    What do the previous four years have to do with it?
    Benedict Arnold was loyal til he wasn't.
    The guy next door was a great neighbor til he murdered your family.
    The hero and the heel are made in a single moment.
    When courage was called for, Pence showed none. The decision he made was not his to make. Perhaps if politicians endeavored to know and understand the Constitution as well as the men who wrote it, we would all benefit.

    Your posts always seem to contain strategically placed typos that cast doubt on your true meaning, or at least distract enough to stifle criticism due to this uncertainty.
    Let's see if you can pick it out of the quoted post above.

    Assuredly, your tone comes through, that being purposely obtuse.
    You should be an Olympian, you're so good at jumping to conclusions, especially about the thoughts or feelings of citizens who supported Trump.

    You present strawman arguments, ignoring presented evidence and counter arguments, and instead focus only on the Overton Window you wish us all to view the situation through.
    In this instance Pence should not have taken the decision he did. He should have allowed the Constitution to do its job and bring clarity to a murky situation.
    You give me more credit for sinister intentions, than I deserve. I didn’t even know I made a typo. Rest assured, what I wrote, I believe. Pence wasn’t a traitor.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    You give me more credit for sinister intentions, than I deserve. I didn’t even know I made a typo. Rest assured, what I wrote, I believe. Pence wasn’t a traitor.
    No but he stood aside and let this all happen to us. If he had done hid duty at least clarity would have been forced on them. But he failed.
    Is that the act of a traitor or a coward. Or some of both.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    No but he stood aside and let this all happen to us. If he had done hid duty at least clarity would have been forced on them. But he failed.
    Is that the act of a traitor or a coward. Or some of both.
    I disagree, but lets say for the sake of argument Pence did have the power you think he did. Do you think his inaction was due to ignorance of his power or fear of...? I simply don't see the motive for Pence to undermine Trump, if he had the power to do otherwise.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    I disagree, but lets say for the sake of argument Pence did have the power you think he did. Do you think his inaction was due to ignorance of his power or fear of...? I simply don't see the motive for Pence to undermine Trump, if he had the power to do otherwise.
    Pence is establishment first and foremost. Second, he has an aversion to controversy such that he would go with the crowd before even considering digging in and fighting.
     

    KLB

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    Pence is establishment first and foremost. Second, he has an aversion to controversy such that he would go with the crowd before even considering digging in and fighting.
    So he was another poor choice by Trump?

    Maybe he just thought that the damage done by trying to fight that fight would be worse than the damage done by not doing so.
     

    Ingomike

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    Pence absolutely made a decision and acted on it. He did not just stand by and not act.

    Kut keeps talking about how Pence had no power to act, but he did act.

    He determined which of competing slates of electors to allow. He accepted the tainted slates and tuned away slates from the state legislatures, the body the constitution declares has the authority to decide how electors are chosen, because the legislatures believed the original electors tainted they sent, directly, a slate of electors to represent their state.

    Pence did act, he followed the bureaucracy and failed the constitution...
     

    Ingomike

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    So he was another poor choice by Trump?

    Maybe he just thought that the damage done by trying to fight that fight would be worse than the damage done by not doing so.

    One man cannot be all things.

    Pence was a very successful selection, he provided the tools necessary to do the most important thing, win the 2016 election, that was his role.

    Trump is a very loyal guy, and while there were better choices for VP second time around he, like I would also, stuck with his guy.

    There also is a tone in your post that Trump often made poor choices. Could that be a reflection of the choices available? I believe it is. The left has taken over DC, where would you find the outsiders to "drain the swamp". Trump had to make around 4000 appointments 1200 of which require senate approval, some of those appointees will be trade offs, and some will just be lousy people with a great interview.
     

    BugI02

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    I disagree, but lets say for the sake of argument Pence did have the power you think he did. Do you think his inaction was due to ignorance of his power or fear of...? I simply don't see the motive for Pence to undermine Trump, if he had the power to do otherwise.
    It is a very human trait, when faced with a choice they are not sure of, to attempt to ascertain the option with the least risk - whether that risk be to reputation, sinecure or future earnings/employment

    While such crawfishing might be understandable, that is not what was expected from the persona Pence was selling about himself. When his moment in history was upon him, he ducked it. Not only is he not themas he pretended to be but he let very many people down at a critical moment

    He may think he was saving himself, certainly not a good look, but instead he has burnt down any credibility he had as anything more than a placeholder. He's walking dead politically
     

    IndyDave1776

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    So he was another poor choice by Trump?

    Maybe he just thought that the damage done by trying to fight that fight would be worse than the damage done by not doing so.
    Nice spin. For Trump's purposes, Pence was a perfect pick. Unfortunately, Trump could not forsee a once in a century event happening or a first time ever massive scale election fraud happening. Unless you believe Trump to be s clairvoyant, its an unfair and unrealistic criticism.
     

    BugI02

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    So he was another poor choice by Trump?

    Maybe he just thought that the damage done by trying to fight that fight would be worse than the damage done by not doing so.
    This post suffers from the delusion that Trump could have chosen from among any and all Republicans, rather than having to make the best of a less than optimal selection

    Considering he was running against BOTH the corrupt Democrats and the Chamber o'Commerce Republicans who were also selling us out, most people waited to see if he had some legs and were only interested in enlisting in the cause if it would profit them personally in some way
     

    KLB

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    This post suffers from the delusion that Trump could have chosen from among any and all Republicans, rather than having to make the best of a less than optimal selection

    Considering he was running against BOTH the corrupt Democrats and the Chamber o'Commerce Republicans who were also selling us out, most people waited to see if he had some legs and were only interested in enlisting in the cause if it would profit them personally in some way
    No delusion on my part. No candidate ever has the opportunity to choose from among everyone in their chosen party.

    Pence was every bit the suckup to trump throughout the Presidency, which seemed to be highly valued by Trump.
     

    Ingomike

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    No delusion on my part. No candidate ever has the opportunity to choose from among everyone in their chosen party.

    Pence was every bit the suckup to trump throughout the Presidency, which seemed to be highly valued by Trump.

    The intent of the first part is simply not true, most presidents do have the ability to draw from the vast majority of their party for positions to fill. Please name the last president that 60%+ of party leadership despised him?

    Since Pence did not openly oppose Trump, he was a suckup?
     

    LynnMCF

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    Pence claimed he is a Christian, conservative, and Republican, in that order. He's lying. He is establishment/swamp first and foremost. The Constitution gives authority over the election process to the state legislatures. Pence ignored this.
    What part of Pence accepting the certification of each state's vote wasn't recognizing the authority of each state over its election process?

    For Pence to have ignored that he would have deferred to Trump and those few Republicans who tried to stop the Constitutional process.
     
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