Which Ready Position is Right? - Master Class Ep. 20

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  • VERT

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    How about: The situation should drive the tactics...

    I believe Hack covered this. Depending on experience fighters will default to what they know really well. How much time should be devoted to different techniques vs fewer options that can be applied in more situations? What is a persons role or job? How much does a person train in general?

    And yes shooting is just another martial art when you break it all down.
     

    foszoe

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    When I am practicing for out and about, I have usually practiced reducing holster draw to target times. I could see grabbing the pistol in the holster as a preparatory move but have always thought that if I draw, I would basically do so because I had already determined there was a threat that required deadly force.

    Never really thought about ready positions.

    What scenarios should I be mentally thinking through where I would want to draw to a ready position?
     

    VERT

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    What scenarios should I be mentally thinking through where I would want to draw to a ready position?

    Scenario would be that you really want the gun to be in your hand but not point the gun at someone. Pointing a loaded firearm at someone is a felony. I get it, sort of a slippery slope. But in eye of public opinion drawing to a low ready and giving a command may look different to the guy with a cell phone camera.
     

    foszoe

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    Scenario would be that you really want the gun to be in your hand but not point the gun at someone. Pointing a loaded firearm at someone is a felony. I get it, sort of a slippery slope. But in eye of public opinion drawing to a low ready and giving a command may look different to the guy with a cell phone camera.
    I should have been more clear. Since I practice draw to target. I guess I do think of a "ready" position but that would be a strong arm grip established with the gun holstered if I thought I perceived a threat but was unsure. I can and do mentally envision that scenario. For a ready position like those in the video, I could see that it could be possible where I had engaged a threat that was no longer a threat but thought there could be another threat. That probability seems rather small for me but it is a possibility.
     

    bwframe

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    Unless you are BLM/ANTIFA...

    864f039d-2bce-4800-a032-a18e95eb2d72-BLM_guns.jpg
     

    MCgrease08

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    I've been playing around with these the past few days after following along with this thread. I really like the high temple index in the Hackathorn video, for a few reasons.

    I live in a second story apartment, so low ready is out of the question without sweeping the downstairs neighbors. I can't assume any downward angle is a safe direction. Same for certain walls. Even the muzzle being parallel to the floor risks sweeping folks next door. There's no one above me, so muzzle up is the best option. Hopefully this will only be a concern for a few more months, but that's another conversation.

    Second, as Ken used as an example when he demonstrated it, I do serve as a first responder at my church. I don't have any security responsibility because we have several off duty LEOs in the building during services, but they don't hang out in the auditorium.

    We have about a 3-350 seat auditorium with a floor level and raised, theater style seating in the back half. I like to sit at the top of the rear section, in the last row on the end of the aisle so I can look down on the congregation and keep an eye out for any type of commotion or medical emergency. If there were ever a shooting in the main auditorium I would have an excellent angle from that position to engage a threat. But, if I had to move, nearly every single person in the auditorium would be below my elevation level. At low ready, I'd be pointing at people's heads in the rows below. No bueno.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    I've been playing around with these the past few days after following along with this thread. I really like the high temple index in the Hackathorn video, for a few reasons.

    I live in a second story apartment, so low ready is out of the question without sweeping the downstairs neighbors. I can't assume any downward angle is a safe direction. Same for certain walls. Even the muzzle being parallel to the floor risks sweeping folks next door. There's no one above me, so muzzle up is the best option. Hopefully this will only be a concern for a few more months, but that's another conversation.

    Second, as Ken used as an example when he demonstrated it, I do serve as a first responder at my church. I don't have any security responsibility because we have several off duty LEOs in the building during services, but they don't hang out in the auditorium.

    We have about a 3-350 seat auditorium with a floor level and raised, theater style seating in the back half. I like to sit at the top of the rear section, in the last row on the end of the aisle so I can look down on the congregation and keep an eye out for any type of commotion or medical emergency. If there were ever a shooting in the main auditorium I would have an excellent angle from that position to engage a threat. But, if I had to move, nearly every single person in the auditorium would be below my elevation level. At low ready, I'd be pointing at people's heads in the rows below. No bueno.
    One trainer told me a long time ago that if you need to present but not shoot you expel fear and uncertainty but make great photo ops. He went on to say that if any of the caution is on your mind while prancing, you had better know the fundamentals of gun craft. That was in 1975.
     
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    Tactically Fat

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    One trainer told me a long time ago that if you need to present but not shoot you expel fear and uncertainty...1975



    But that's akin to "I simply had to shoot because I already drew my gun". Which is a load of horse crap. Absolute stomped on, rained on, wet, soupy horse crap.

    As if situations aren't fluid. As if situations don't change in fractions of a second.

    Oh man, this dog is charging me, I'd better draw my gun - thought the man. So he does. Then, when the turns away and doesn't attack, the man thinks "oh, I'd better shoot this dog anyway because my gun is in my hand.". See what utter nonsense that is?

    If the situation changes or diffuses before the trigger is pulled - then what? Are you then expelling fear and uncertainty? Seriously? Any little bit of critical thinking applied to situations will show you how flawed that way of thinking is.

    Just because a gun is unholstered doesn't mean that gun must be used. Period.
     
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    Trapper Jim

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    But that's akin to "I simply had to shoot because I already drew my gun". Which is a load of horse crap. Absolute stomped on, rained on, wet, soupy horse crap.

    As if situations aren't fluid. As if situations don't change in fractions of a second.

    Oh man, this dog is charging me, I'd better draw my gun - thought the man. So he does. Then, when the turns away and doesn't attack, the man thinks "oh, I'd better shoot this dog anyway because my gun is in my hand.". See what utter nonsense that is?

    If the situation changes or diffuses before the trigger is pulled - then what? Are you then expelling fear and uncertainty? Seriously? Any little bit of critical thinking applied to situations will show you how flawed that way of thinking is.

    Just because a gun is unholstered doesn't mean that gun must be used. Period.
    and part of this is why the silent stealth mode of presentation can be important.
     

    Jaybird1980

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    I should have been more clear. Since I practice draw to target. I guess I do think of a "ready" position but that would be a strong arm grip established with the gun holstered if I thought I perceived a threat but was unsure. I can and do mentally envision that scenario. For a ready position like those in the video, I could see that it could be possible where I had engaged a threat that was no longer a threat but thought there could be another threat. That probability seems rather small for me but it is a possibility.
    Things happen, and an extra free hand could be beneficial.

    This guys vids show a lot of different scenarios and how they went down. More than a few of them the gun was presented in a manner other than a standard draw. I'm not saying I always agree with it, but it does a good job of showing a big variety of situations, and reinforcing how stupid people can be.

     

    Gabriel

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    I use a lot of different ready positions at work... except the high ready and having it up at your temple crap. What he demonstrates at about 7:15 (original video, I didn't watch the others) is what I started doing years ago searching buildings and other related things. I do pull it past all retention devices, but leave the handgun mostly in the holster. It makes it easy for me to either finish the draw if I need to or drop/push it back in if I find myself needing to go hands on suddenly or stumble over objects on the floor. I think it works great. I use Sul a lot or low ready if I feel a threat is more immediate.
     

    bwframe

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    But that's akin to "I simply had to shoot because I already drew my gun". Which is a load of horse crap. Absolute stomped on, rained on, wet, soupy horse crap.

    As if situations aren't fluid. As if situations don't change in fractions of a second.

    Oh man, this dog is charging me, I'd better draw my gun - thought the man. So he does. Then, when the turns away and doesn't attack, the man thinks "oh, I'd better shoot this dog anyway because my gun is in my hand.". See what utter nonsense that is?

    If the situation changes or diffuses before the trigger is pulled - then what? Are you then expelling fear and uncertainty? Seriously? Any little bit of critical thinking applied to situations will show you how flawed that way of thinking is.

    Just because a gun is unholstered doesn't mean that gun must be used. Period.
    Aaaaaaah, I think that has a lot to do with your mindset in relation to how quick you are to draw your gun.

    If you think you need to have the gun in hand rather than in holster, I can certainty see being cautious with the trigger pull.

    If your draw is considered part of actually using the gun for self-defense and your ready position is gun in holster, I can see the thought process as gun will be shot when it comes out of holster.

    In that case, the gun comes out of the holster only when it needs to be shot. Gun wouldn't be out if the holster at all, if the situation is a maybe.

    Of course, as mentioned above, there are no absolutes.
     

    Jackson

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    Things happen, and an extra free hand could be beneficial.

    This guys vids show a lot of different scenarios and how they went down. More than a few of them the gun was presented in a manner other than a standard draw. I'm not saying I always agree with it, but it does a good job of showing a big variety of situations, and reinforcing how stupid people can be.


    Obviously, we don't have all the information but I can't see why he has the gun out at all here. It didn't do anything but limited his options and take a significant portion of his attention away from better solution and on to keeping the gun away.

    This is also a good example of open carry limiting your options. If he left that gun in a concealed holster he may have been able to do a lot of other things.

    Maybe not, but he certainly narrowed his range of options when he got the gun out so early.
     

    Jaybird1980

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    Obviously, we don't have all the information but I can't see why he has the gun out at all here. It didn't do anything but limited his options and take a significant portion of his attention away from better solution and on to keeping the gun away.

    This is also a good example of open carry limiting your options. If he left that gun in a concealed holster he may have been able to do a lot of other things.

    Maybe not, but he certainly narrowed his range of options when he got the gun out so early.
    I agree, that's why I said I don't always agree with what goes on. I don't think I would have even got that close to the situation that was spiraling out of control, but sometimes you don't get to choose.
     

    Awaters1991

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    Oh my, should have watched the whole video first.

    The last ready position mentioned is seldom taught, but it's the one I use and will preach about whenever asked.
    I agree, the chance to deescalate is the most important piece here. CCW is a bit different in that if I’m pulling it out everything else has probably failed. In that case low ready is probably where I’m going next.
     
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