Wanna know why people say ACAB?

[Hatin Since 87]

I’m not painting with a broad brush. Unfortunately i seem to have found myself as being painted as the opposition because I thought a discussion of the opposition and their viewpoints would be thought provoking and intelligent. But it has devolved into this and if I have to be the bad guy for bringing up the poor branding that police have right now then so be it. I’m fine with that.
As to them being overwhelmed I understand and agree. I spent some time working as an armed guard during the riots and was thoroughly disturbed at the amount of calls I heard on the scanner and amount that IMPD simply couldn’t respond to. I spent my nights listening to the scanner for the same reason I follow BLM Twitter and follow certain sub Reddit’s. I wanted intel, fighting without information and intel when it’s readily available is a fools errand.

Few good points there that I can agree with wholeheartedly... but I don’t think the police have poor branding. I think people and media drive a narrative and continually put bad apples in the spotlight and it gives that perception. They thrive on keeping us divided. Left vs right. Black vs white. Cop vs citizen.

I remember when I was in high school we all thought cops were ***holes who just wanted to bust the party on Friday nights and give fines for speeding. Now I understand they bust up high school parties because it saves teenagers from getting hammered and dying on their way home, speeding tickets so the self centered jackasses on the highway aren’t running over everyone.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Hey lets talk about Biden or something less divisive!

Buck Fiden

 

[Denny347]

Few good points there that I can agree with wholeheartedly... but I don’t think the police have poor branding. I think people and media drive a narrative and continually put bad apples in the spotlight and it gives that perception. They thrive on keeping us divided. Left vs right. Black vs white. Cop vs citizen.

Literally MILLIONS of police/citizen interactions a year and the vast majority of the Us v. Them perpetuation actually comes from the citizens, not the police. Funny how that works out.

 

[Keith_Indy]

"All Cops Are Bad" is the definition of "painting with a broad brush".

oh his point is, "I'm not saying that, I'm just saying other people are saying that. and I posted a video that other people are saying proves it, even if it isn't cops in the video, it looks like it so people believe it and that furthers the narrative that other people are saying."

This style of argumentation might pass muster in leftist colleges, but both my English and Philosophy (where Logic and Ethics were taught) professors would have handed back the paper and said something to the effect of "Be clear what your point is, and make sure the evidence you present backs your point."

 

[Keith_Indy]

It doesn’t change the purpose of what I intended. A thought provoking discussion on WHY people don’t like the cops and why might we have thousands of people in the street chanting and protesting the police.

Well, those protests stopped on a dime once Biden was declared the winner by the media... Well, other than those loons up in the Pacific North West, there's no appeasing anarchists.

So, what does that tell you about who organized the protests and what their purpose was???

 

[JettaKnight]

Well, those protests stopped on a dime once Biden was declared the winner by the media... Well, other than those loons up in the Pacific North West, there's no appeasing anarchists.

So, what does that tell you about who organized the protests and what their purpose was???

At least around here, all that stopped long before the election.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

And mine could very well take me in the opposite direction... could very well be a couple "bubba" volunteer part time deputies "playing" cops and robbers because their cousin is county sheriff in some random southern state county.

If this is tied to names/dates/arrest blotter... then bubba needs to meet prison bubba.

Random southern state.... Clearly you haven't been to Dunkirk.

 

[actaeon277]

oh his point is, "I'm not saying that, I'm just saying other people are saying that. and I posted a video that other people are saying proves it, even if it isn't cops in the video, it looks like it so people believe it and that furthers the narrative that other people are saying."

This style of argumentation might pass muster in leftist colleges, but both my English and Philosophy (where Logic and Ethics were taught) professors would have handed back the paper and said something to the effect of "Be clear what your point is, and make sure the evidence you present backs your point."

Sort of like a video of an irresponsible or idiotic gun carrier.
And then saying All Gun Owners Are Bad.

 

[breakingcontact]

The ACAB crowd is foolish.

The back the blue without question crowd is foolish.

Cops are people, when we villainize or idolize any group of people it is bad for them and us.

 

[qwerty]

 

[Hatin Since 87]

The ACAB crowd is foolish.

The back the blue without question crowd is foolish.

Cops are people, when we villainize or idolize any group of people it is bad for them and us.

I don’t technically “idolize” police. I respect them, much like the respect for veterans, active military, doctors and nurses, and any other first responders. There are bad individuals in every profession. When a bad one is brought to light I will no longer respect them as an individual... but the vast majority of them are facing life or death situations daily and do so with honor and integrity, that in itself deserves and earns my respect.

I’ve done stupid things I regret in my life. I’m sure you have. If I were on camera and wearing a badge or uniform of some kind it would be national news... however, I don’t and it isn’t. Sometimes we’re too quick to pass judgement on a person for mistakes they make. Also, that depends on the mistake. When I say I’ve done stupid things, I mean stupid like calling someone names I regret, partying every weekend until I went to work tired and hungover, speeding 150+ mph on my motorcycle, etc. NOT stupid mistakes like rape, murder, theft, etc. those aren’t stupid mistakes, those are criminal actions that everyone should be held accountable for regardless of their profession... and yes, an officer who has sworn to uphold and enforce the law should not break the law themselves and should be held to a higher standard in that regard... but a bad apple here and there isn’t a reflection of the majority.

 

[Tombs]

If you want to see straight up murder by a cop...

 

[SheepDog4Life]

If you want to see straight up murder by a cop...

IMO, came out of the car looking to shoot this guy... got his wish.

Should meet bubba in prison long time.

 

[Route 45]

IMO, came out of the car looking to shoot this guy... got his wish.

Should meet bubba in prison long time.

His fifth police action shooting, and fourth fatal one.

Interim police chief says recent shooting of unarmed man was Modesto officer’s fourth fatality

(KTXL) — A family and an organization are asking for more answers after police killed a Modesto man last week. As of Thursday, there are three different investigations taking place, wit…

fox40.com

 

[Denny347]

The narrator was doing an OK job describing SOME aspects of this. Deadly force standard is "objective reasonable evidence of a deadly threat". Maybe he is quoting the law in his state or the state this video is from. Somehow I doubt it. In Indiana that is total BS. He was talking in general terms about the initial call and the officer safety bulletin. The specific details contained in either of those things could be HUGE in determining the reasonableness of this shooting. We do not have those details here to judge. He was complaining the the officer to on the radio after the initial shots. WTF? He got on the radio to say "shots fired". This has to be broadcast. He lost me when he started making excuses why the guy started putting his hands down when an officer has a GUN pointed at him and that bad guys wouldn't leave one hand in the air while reaching for something with the other. That is a terrible assumption. His tactical critiques are meh but they are worthless in determining the reasonableness of the UoF. His analysis on the reasonableness is virtually worthless. But hey, he's got a YouTube channel and a fancy logo so that's enough for me....

 

[Tombs]

The narrator was doing an OK job describing SOME aspects of this. Deadly force standard is "objective reasonable evidence of a deadly threat". Maybe he is quoting the law in his state or the state this video is from. Somehow I doubt it. In Indiana that is total BS. He was talking in general terms about the initial call and the officer safety bulletin. The specific details contained in either of those things could be HUGE in determining the reasonableness of this shooting. We do not have those details here to judge. He was complaining the the officer to on the radio after the initial shots. WTF? He got on the radio to say "shots fired". This has to be broadcast. He lost me when he started making excuses why the guy started putting his hands down when an officer has a GUN pointed at him and that bad guys wouldn't leave one hand in the air while reaching for something with the other. That is a terrible assumption. His tactical critiques are meh but they are worthless in determining the reasonableness of the UoF. His analysis on the reasonableness is virtually worthless. But hey, he's got a YouTube channel and a fancy logo so that's enough for me....

The reckless speed he was firing at, at that distance, and the fact that he was popping rounds the second he got out of the car were the things I saw that looked clear cut ridiculous.

Based on his history of shooting that many people, I don't think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

If any other citizen did this, they would be facing murder charges. I don't think some citizens have more rights than others.

 

[bwframe]

The narrator was doing an OK job describing SOME aspects of this. Deadly force standard is "objective reasonable evidence of a deadly threat". Maybe he is quoting the law in his state or the state this video is from. Somehow I doubt it. In Indiana that is total BS. He was talking in general terms about the initial call and the officer safety bulletin. The specific details contained in either of those things could be HUGE in determining the reasonableness of this shooting. We do not have those details here to judge. He was complaining the the officer to on the radio after the initial shots. WTF? He got on the radio to say "shots fired". This has to be broadcast. He lost me when he started making excuses why the guy started putting his hands down when an officer has a GUN pointed at him and that bad guys wouldn't leave one hand in the air while reaching for something with the other. That is a terrible assumption. His tactical critiques are meh but they are worthless in determining the reasonableness of the UoF. His analysis on the reasonableness is virtually worthless. But hey, he's got a YouTube channel and a fancy logo so that's enough for me....

Thank you for your on this!

Please don't let the cop bashers on INGO run you away. Your professional input is invaluable.

 

[Denny347]

The reckless speed he was firing at, at that distance, and the fact that he was popping rounds the second he got out of the car were the things I saw that looked clear cut ridiculous.

Based on his history of shooting that many people, I don't think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

If any other citizen did this, they would be facing murder charges. I don't think some citizens have more rights than others.

Few things are "clear cut" when it comes to UoF. He got out of his car and ran. It was about 11 seconds from car door to first shot. About 4 seconds from aiming to first shot. The officer was running for about 6 seconds. Assuming he was jogging a typical 5mph for 6 seconds = about 2 1/2 yards per second = 15yrds. None of that is "popping rounds the second he gets out of the car". His history has nothing to do with the facts of THIS case and is only used to prejudice the investigation. I can only speak for Indiana law but citizens and LE enjoy the same UoF laws with the only difference in force to affect an arrest. IC 35-41-3-2 and IC 35-41-3-3. Please do not assume the legality of a non-LE using deadly force in this same scenario as it would be silly since a non-LEO would not be out taking someone into custody. By his radio traffic, the tac reloads, his verbal commands, he appeared to be operating in what we refer to as his "high brain". A 50 yrd shot while in high brain isn't hard. I've seen it/done it myself. To say a 50yrd shot with a pistol is a ridiculous distance is itself ridiculous. Reckless speed? Not so much. I'm away from my human performance notes but tomorrow I will look up the action times to start/stop firing. I don't think his firing was all that unusual.

 

[rooster]

Few things are "clear cut" when it comes to UoF. He got out of his car and ran. It was about 11 seconds from car door to first shot. About 4 seconds from aiming to first shot. The officer was running for about 6 seconds. Assuming he was jogging a typical 5mph for 6 seconds = about 2 1/2 yards per second = 15yrds. None of that is "popping rounds the second he gets out of the car". His history has nothing to do with the facts of THIS case and is only used to prejudice the investigation. I can only speak for Indiana law but citizens and LE enjoy the same UoF laws with the only difference in force to affect an arrest. IC 35-41-3-2 and IC 35-41-3-3. Please do not assume the legality of a non-LE using deadly force in this same scenario as it would be silly since a non-LEO would not be out taking someone into custody. By his radio traffic, the tac reloads, his verbal commands, he appeared to be operating in what we refer to as his "high brain". A 50 yrd shot while in high brain isn't hard. I've seen it/done it myself. To say a 50yrd shot with a pistol is a ridiculous distance is itself ridiculous. Reckless speed? Not so much. I'm away from my human performance notes but tomorrow I will look up the action times to start/stop firing. I don't think his firing was all that unusual.

So in your opinion is this a good shoot?

 

[Denny347]

So in your opinion is this a good shoot?

How could I know that? Just because I cannot say it was a bad shoot doesn't mean I think it was a good shoot. The information missing to call it a bad shoot is the SAME info that could be used to support a good shoot.


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