RSOs view of the world.. Training or the lack of it :)

[cedartop]

It's even more aggressive than that! Some who are ignorant can acknowledge that fact when confronted with the truth. Some of those may take measures to improve the situation. The people to whom I referred are apparently incapable of comprehending that there is something they don't know.

In the class I helped Randy in over the weekend we had one guy who wanted to use a revolver. We said that was fine, if that is what you carry, by all means practice with it. We did warn him that it may he tough to keep up with the rest of the class. Much of this class was shot from retention. We did everything dry first and put it in context. This guy kept jamming his revolver out and into the opponent. I showed him the proper number two, he said since he was using a revolver that wouldn't go out of battery like a semi auto, he preferred his method. I tried to show him again the other reason we were doing it the way we were doing it and he said he didn't like that. At this point I just said fine do it the way you want. I wasn't going to waste my time on a guy who had no intention of doing what you asked him to do when there were 17 other people in the class who were willing to listen.

 

[Coach]

I have 10 to 12 people like that in every period all day long Monday through Friday and the community and their parents want to blame me.

 

[rhino]

In the class I helped Randy in over the weekend we had one guy who wanted to use a revolver. We said that was fine, if that is what you carry, by all means practice with it. We did warn him that it may he tough to keep up with the rest of the class. Much of this class was shot from retention. We did everything dry first and put it in context. This guy kept jamming his revolver out and into the opponent. I showed him the proper number two, he said since he was using a revolver that wouldn't go out of battery like a semi auto, he preferred his method. I tried to show him again the other reason we were doing it the way we were doing it and he said he didn't like that. At this point I just said fine do it the way you want. I wasn't going to waste my time on a guy who had no intention of doing what you asked him to do when there were 17 other people in the class who were willing to listen.

That's an expensive day for refusing to try what you're paying people to teach you. Oy!

 

[churchmouse]

I have 10 to 12 people like that in every period all day long Monday through Friday and the community and their parents want to blame me.

Because for them to look in the mirror and admit they are wrong is out of the question.

 

[NHT3]

New lesson today. Learned that the hood on a hoodie is very effective at funneling hot brass down the back. It's a different dance than the brass down the front dance and much more entertaining. Watched a guy that I've seen in the range at least 10 times shoot 9 shots at a 12" X 12" target at 4 yards and hit it 6 times. This guy puts at least 200 rounds down range every time he is there. I see people practice regularly but they have no idea what they are doing wrong so they never improve. I would estimate that 1 out of 50 could hit a 8" circle consistently at 7 yards.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

All good points.

Revolvers may be simpler for untrained people to operate, but when they do malfunction . . . better have a second revolver handy.

Since the folks we're discussing probably won't put a box of 50 through it in a lifetime, malfunctions are low on the list of worries. Can't limp wrist it...

 

[actaeon277]

I know many people who carry a revolver for other reasons. A lot of them. Not lazy. Limited yes but not blatantly unwilling. There are so many of these folks you are referring to but not all folks are in that group.

 

[ECS686]

I have 10 to 12 people like that in every period all day long Monday through Friday and the community and their parents want to blame me.

I hear you, when those types grow up they run to the Union when they fail on a range for their work. And when I ask how many times they picked up a gun and practiced since the last qualification (since they have to reshoot every year for like 12 years) they say none. I'm like "how did I know ow but it's my fault LOL

 

[Vigilant]

My God.

Right, he could have at least asked that guy to move before he took the picture?

 

[NHT3]

Couple rents a single action revolver and calls me because he can't figure out how to load it. "I can't get the cylinder to open"
Guy that looked like (I've had the honor to meet 3 Navy Seals and this guy honestly looked the part) he was a Navy Seal. What alerted me to possibility he might be a poser was the fact he was the first person I've seen wear body armor into the range. This guy had tactical dripping off of him. His lady was using the time tested thumb behind the slide grip (almost identical to the last pic I posted) while he supervised. After getting her up to speed I watched him shoot a 6" group at 5 yards to impress her. It was something to see. Also had a guy rent a shotgun and call me because it had an extraction problem. Turns out that "somebody" sold him some 20GA ammo for a 12 GA gun. When I get a chance I'll post a pic of the empty. One guy commented he was leaving before his time was up because he had run through 400 rounds. His target looked like he was shooting 00 buck out of a 12 GA. Just some of the highlights. All the usual "operators" that roll their eyes when you ask them to obey the simple safety rules. Most surprising part was I didn't have to clear one double feed in over 4 hours. It still amazes me how inaccurate most of the people are. I would estimate that 90% (pistol shooters) could not consistently keep rounds in an 6" circle at 5 yards.


[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[jsharmon7]

It's even more aggressive than that! Some who are ignorant can acknowledge that fact when confronted with the truth. Some of those may take measures to improve the situation. The people to whom I referred are apparently incapable of comprehending that there is something they don't know.

I find it much more enjoyable to buy the latest Sig wonder pistol with optics, a $400 chest rig, and a shmedium shirt than it is to go to professional training or do dry fire drills. I also enjoy going to the gym and doing quarter squats with heavy weight rather than utilizing proper form and depth to actually get results. I look way cooler in both scenarios. YMMV.

 

[cedartop]

. It still amazes me how inaccurate most of the people are. I would estimate that 90% (pistol shooters) could not consistently keep rounds in an 6" circle at 5 yards.


[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

It no longer amazes me. Lately I have been doing the Vickers/Hackathorn "Test" at the beginning and end of a class. These are largely people who tell me they are shooters. When they watch me demo it, they think it is going to be too easy. Not only has no one passed it the first run, some even manage to miss the B8 completely. Now they are there to learn so I don't hold it against them, it is just more proof of not knowing what you don't know and Dunning Kruger Effect.

 

[rhino]

It no longer amazes me. Lately I have been doing the Vickers/Hackathorn "Test" at the beginning and end of a class. These are largely people who tell me they are shooters. When they watch me demo it, they think it is going to be too easy. Not only has no one passed it the first run, some even manage to miss the B8 completely. Now they are there to learn so I don't hold it against them, it is just more proof of not knowing what you don't know and Dunning Kruger Effect.

Do you require all 10 shots in the black to pass (Vickers) or 90% of the points (Hackathorn)?

 

[cedartop]

Do you require all 10 shots in the black to pass (Vickers) or 90% of the points (Hackathorn)?

For my personal use, all in the black. For students 90%. I do a bunch of variations personally such as 5R5 or SHO/WHO but don't have to go that far usually to make it challenging in class. I am working towards not using a B8 but a 3X5.

 

[rhino]

For my personal use, all in the black. For students 90%. I do a bunch of variations personally such as 5R5 or SHO/WHO but don't have to go that far usually to make it challenging in class. I am working towards not using a B8 but a 3X5.

A 3x5" card is tough!

 

[NHT3]

Easily 90% of the "training" I see going on in the range consists of people that have absolutely no idea of what they are doing but speaking like a USPSA Grand master. I know that being judgemental is above my pay grade and at times I try to talk with some but I usually end up biting my tongue. Watching while people miss targets (the whole 23 X 35 paper) at 5 yards and handing out band-aids for bleeding thumbs. It starts out being comical but by the end of the shift it's really very sad. 20 GA shells in 12 GA guns, 380 in 9MM, 9MM in 40 and 40 in 45. A guy complaining that his new 38 spl revolver would not accept 380 ammo and even a PMR30 that refused to function with 22 LR ammo. If you've never tried to clear a PMR30 mag of 22 LR ammo shove a couple in a mag sometime, you're in for a treat.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[rhino]

It's taken years to get to this point, but I've learned that unless someone is doing something dangerous that requires immediate intervention, it's best to keep my mouth shut. No good deed goes unpunished.

If I spent more time on ranges with lots of people in the same bays or in lanes side by side, it would be a lot harder.

It's really, really hard to not say something when bad advice is coming from someone who is a range employee or otherwise expected to advise the shooters.

 

[NHT3]

Watched a guy put 100 rounds of 50AE down range on one piece of paper?? Probably a $150 target. I"ll try to post pics later. He had quite a few malfunctions but I'm guessing it was due to the thumb behind the slide grip. At least 100 rounds downrange out of an AR pistol without any sights and it was a very slow evening.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[dieselmudder]

So glad I have my own outdoor range, on my property. Id hate to look foolish in front of anyone.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

 

[Ark]

Watched a guy put 100 rounds of 50AE down range on one piece of paper?? Probably a $150 target. I"ll try to post pics later. He had quite a few malfunctions but I'm guessing it was due to the thumb behind the slide grip. At least 100 rounds downrange out of an AR pistol without any sights and it was a very slow evening.
[FONT=&amp][/FONT]

Would be nice to have that mind of money.